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Need flat handlebar advice

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Need flat handlebar advice

Old 04-28-19, 06:18 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Hmm, time for a new pump! My Park floor pump has no problem with either valve type.

The diameter of a drop handlebar where brake levers mount is 23.8mm. The diameter of flat bars is 22.2. Your cyclocross inline levers probably have a 23.8mm clamp for drop bars, too big for the 22.2 of flat bars.

As far as cable pull, there are two kinds:

-Short pull: works with cantis, sidepulls, centerpulls, u-brakes, roller-cams, and "road"-labeled disc brakes.

-Long pull (aka "linear pull" or "direct pull"): works with V-brakes and "mtb"-labeled disc brakes.

Modern Campagnolo integrated brake/shift levers are short pull but have a slightly different cable pull ratio. They will work with any short pull brake but they will work better with Campagnolo-specific brakes. For example, Paul Components short pull disc brake is offered in a regular-short pull or Campagnolo-short pull version.
Will Sram 10s brifters pull the cantis appropriately? I'm guessing yes but want to confirm.
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Old 04-28-19, 06:22 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Will Sram 10s brifters pull the cantis appropriately? I'm guessing yes but want to confirm.
Yep. All drop bar levers, unless they are explicitly labeled otherwise, are short pull and will work with cantis. The few exceptions are the long pull drop bar levers made by Cane Creek and Tektro, which were created for the cyclocross market when some cross racers started using long pull V brakes instead of short pull cantis.
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Old 04-28-19, 07:12 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Yep. All drop bar levers, unless they are explicitly labeled otherwise, are short pull and will work with cantis. The few exceptions are the long pull drop bar levers made by Cane Creek and Tektro, which were created for the cyclocross market when some cross racers started using long pull V brakes instead of short pull cantis.
Thanks!

In regards to BianchiGirl above, correct me if I'm wrong but don't flat bars significantly reduce the reach for a given stem length compared to drop bar levers? Nevermind the fact that flat bar brakes are also higher compared to old school drop bar levers that sit considerably below level with the tops of a drop bar. And don't also flat bar levers provide quite a bit more leverage/squeezing power than drop levers?
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Old 04-28-19, 07:16 PM
  #29  
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Flat bars do reduce the reach compared to a drop bar but the wider the flat bar, the longer the effective reach, because you are splaying your arms out further to reach the grips. Most good flat bars have at least a little sweep back which helps negate this effect. Either way you'd have to get really wide to make up for the 70-130mm of reach that most drop bars have.
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Old 04-28-19, 07:52 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread View Post
Flat bars do reduce the reach compared to a drop bar but the wider the flat bar, the longer the effective reach, because you are splaying your arms out further to reach the grips. Most good flat bars have at least a little sweep back which helps negate this effect. Either way you'd have to get really wide to make up for the 70-130mm of reach that most drop bars have.
Agreed. What about increased pull strength. Cantis aren't exactly known for being good at stopping.
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Old 04-28-19, 07:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Agreed. What about increased pull strength. Cantis aren't exactly known for being good at stopping.
All things being equal, a flat bar lever should be no different from a drop bar lever. Any difference in leverage will mostly be in the ergonomics of the hand position.

If pulling drop bar levers from the hoods, you don't have that much leverage because you're moving the lever from near its pivot point. It's like using a long wrench but grabbing it near the jaws. Pulling the levers from the drops, on the other hand, gives you tons of leverage. On a flat bar, you are grabbing the whole length of the lever so you have good leverage.

Cantis can be very powerful if set up correctly. Some are easier to set up than others. There are more variables to adjust with a canti because you have the straddle cable position to consider. V brakes and sidepulls are usually easier to set up.
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Old 04-28-19, 11:51 PM
  #32  
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Why not a swept back bar? Velo Orange and Soma have great options.
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Old 04-29-19, 07:21 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Why not a swept back bar? Velo Orange and Soma have great options.
I'm not sure either of us want to sit that upright tbh.
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Old 04-29-19, 08:38 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I'm not sure either of us want to sit that upright tbh.
Level of uprightness is more of a function of where the bar is, and rise. You donít have to mount the bar really high. The sweep is effective for shortening the top tube. Unless you have a small distance to deal with.

Sample new bike with swept back bars lower than seat: https://www.bikeconnection.net/produ...c-308259-1.htm
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Old 04-29-19, 08:45 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Agreed. What about increased pull strength. Cantis aren't exactly known for being good at stopping.
???

Cantilever brakes have more stopping power than anything except V brakes (which are cantilevers).
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Old 04-29-19, 08:48 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Level of uprightness is more of a function of where the bar is, and rise. You donít have to mount the bar really high. The sweep is effective for shortening the top tube. Unless you have a small distance to deal with.

Sample new bike with swept back bars lower than seat: https://www.bikeconnection.net/produ...c-308259-1.htm
I see uprightness as a function of reach. The top tube of this bike is short enough that I don't think a big sweep back is necessary.

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
???

Cantilever brakes have more stopping power than anything except V brakes (which are cantilevers).
Not in my experience, or anyone that I've ever talked to about cantis... hmm.
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Old 04-29-19, 09:41 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post

Not in my experience, or anyone that I've ever talked to about cantis... hmm.
Then theyíre set up incorrectly.

Just thinking about it for a moment- why are bikes that are designed with a need for great stopping power (tandems and tourers) were/are generally designed with cantilevers?
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Old 04-29-19, 09:44 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Then theyíre set up incorrectly.

Just thinking about it for a moment- why are bikes that are designed with a need for great stopping power (tandems and tourers) were/are generally designed with cantilevers?
I've always wondered that. I figured fender clearance was a consideration.

Have you tried hydro discs? I can't imagine anything having better stopping power than those.
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Old 04-29-19, 09:59 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
I've always wondered that. I figured fender clearance was a consideration.

Have you tried hydro discs? I can't imagine anything having better stopping power than those.

I didnít realize discs were a part of this conversation.

Point is cantilever brakes have better/more stopping power than than any single pivot sidepull, only dual pivot side pull and center pull brakes have nearly the same power.

If your cantilever brakes donít stop better than your sidepull brakes, thereís something wrong with them.
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Old 04-29-19, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
I didnít realize discs were a part of this conversation.

Point is cantilever brakes have better/more stopping power than than any single pivot sidepull, only dual pivot side pull and center pull brakes have nearly the same power.

If your cantilever brakes donít stop better than your sidepull brakes, thereís something wrong with them.
Sorry, didn't mean to overstep my bounds. Once I get new brake pads I'll have a much better idea of stopping power on this bike.
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Old 04-29-19, 10:14 AM
  #41  
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IMHO and IME

Flat bars are good for mountain bikes, not that good for any thing else......the hand position is not natural anatomically. and they kill my wrists YMMV

I suggest going to some thing like the velo orrange tourist....it will give a more rearward rearch, tektro levers, and simply the shifting with thumb shifters ( all at velo orange)



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Old 04-29-19, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
IMHO and IME

Flat bars are good for mountain bikes, not that good for any thing else......the hand position is not natural anatomically. and they kill my wrists YMMV

I suggest going to some thing like the velo orrange tourist....it will give a more rearward rearch, tektro levers, and simply the shifting with thumb shifters ( all at velo orange)



My inclement-weather bike has a swept-back bar with nearly parallel grip sections, which is set a little below the saddle. It gives me a very comfortable hand position, with an overall riding position that's still mostly upright, but gives better weight distribution and more ability to stand on the pedals than a fully-upright bike
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Old 04-29-19, 11:24 AM
  #43  
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^^^^^^ Shows how widely human anatomy / physiology varies person to person. I've always found that in a further aft position, I have much LESS ability to stand on the pedals.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
^^^^^^ Shows how widely human anatomy / physiology varies person to person. I've always found that in a further aft position, I have much LESS ability to stand on the pedals.
Yes, I agree with you. I was referring to the handlebar position. On a super-upright bike with very shallow angles and handlebar at-or-above saddle height, like my ANT or Raleigh Tourist, I find it extremely difficult to stand on the pedals, where on the bike pictured above, it's quite easy.


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Old 04-29-19, 11:32 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Awesome thanks! I'll let you know.



Yeah she already mentioned her hesitation to use dt shifters and it's not even ridable yet...
I have used the Falcon friction thumb shifters in the past. I took off the rubber tips because they had a slight oder, but they are stupidly cheap and work well. Cables included! If they can fit with your cross brake levers then she never has to use the drops.



I also have a couple of steel cruiser style hanblebars. They have a bit more sweep to them than the one pictured above. Pm me if you are interested.
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Old 04-29-19, 11:53 PM
  #46  
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Swept bars don't need to be upright. With the right stem length and height swept bars can offer a variety of hand positions, and a comfortable upright position or more aggressive aero position when needed. Flip the bars and try the path racer setup if you prefer a lower position. I did that last year for a couple of weeks but returned to the upright bar position.

Last year I switched my Univega hybrid to albatross bars and bar-end shifters. Best incarnation yet for that bike. It came with flat bars and thumb shifters. The flat bars were uncomfortable on longer rides and the thumb shifters broke. I switched to riser bars with a slight sweep and friction shifters, which were fine for a couple of years. But the Nitto albatross and bar-end shifters are keepers.

For standing to pedal, yup, it took a little practice. The balance is different if I'm holding the bar end grips, but my bike's top tube is fairly long and I added a 130mm horizontal road bike stem, which solved any minor balance problem.

To get more aero I lean into the forward curves of the albatross bar. And putting my hands over the brake clamps while standing to pedal feels pretty much like using my road bike hoods while standing to pedal -- no balance problems.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:46 AM
  #47  
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I put an Origin 8 Space Bar Off Road 2 with Ergon grips on my Ogre and really like them. I'm not sure if they make them in anything but 31.8 clamp diameter though.
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Old 04-30-19, 10:11 AM
  #48  
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I do not understand this urge by some to try to make a race/road bike into a comfort cruiser. I find that a 130mm stem with a slight rise from a nineties mtb put a straight bar in a good position on a road bike. It will put the at bars about saddle hight or slightly over if the bike is of the correct size. Putting a short stem with a swept back bar on a short top tube road bike make no sense to me.
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