Vince Hoffmann

I would love to hear more of your opinion on this...

P!N20

Pretty self explanatory: Montellos did not have a chainstay bridge.

fraba

Oups! I think we forgot this along our search.

Another funny thing is that all images I see from the 1984 Montello with Campy 50th anniversary on the Net DOES NOT have the riveted head bagdge. It is ovale and looks like a decal.

OMG we are never done with Italian bikes

Vince Hoffmann

Please continue... I would like to positively identify this frame in agreement with everyone involved, and I do appreciate your knowledge on this subject

P!N20

I'll try. We first saw the Montello in the 1985 catalogue - although there are some 1984 examples. It was their top tier model which used the relatively new Columbus SLX tubing with helicoidal reinforcing to the tubes adjacent to the bottom bracket shell.

To show off this 'new' tubing and highlight the workmanship of Pinarello, the chainstay bridge was excluded in favour of a gusset reinforced bottom bracket shell.



It was even mentioned in the '85 catalogue:





(Although plenty of other frame builders were doing something similar at the time, so I'm not sure how 'innovative' it was.)

They even took a photo of it (with cable guides, despite the description):



There's SL, SLX and TSX versions of the Montello, but as far as I'm aware they all had the reinforced BB shell sans bridge. Fast forward to the later years of the 80's and early 90's and several models lost their chainstay bridges - Gavia, Asolo, Treviso...

Here's something else I've come up with regarding Montellos: they all have a small raised GPT logo between the seatstay caps and the seat post clamp. I've only ever seen it on Montellos:



So there you go. How did I do?

Wildwood 

@Pin20 - you did great.
This pic is of an 84 or 85 SL framed Pinarello - has chainstay bridge, no internal cables route.

Is this the seat stay cap treatment you have only seen on Montello??? Full chrome on chainstays and seatstay.



Showing seat stay dent and seat post cluster.

P!N20

Nah, I mean the little GPT logo:

Vince Hoffmann

so what do you think I’ve got here? A Treviso with internal cable routing?

CO_Hoya 

In the 1982 catalog, both the Tre Cime (Columbus SL) and the Prestige S (Columbus KL!!) have internal routing so it was certainly available. But do note that both bikes shown have the rear (exit) port very close to the seat while your bike's is forward.

Earlier it was noted that your frame was likely repainted, so it's possible that the internal routing was added then, using non-factory spacing on the ports.

Vince Hoffmann

yep, it was repainted at one point. Drilling and brazing new cable ports seems like a lot of effort for little return. Other than looks, why would someone do this?

CO_Hoya 

Well, if a cable guide was damaged or rusted, some brazing work would have been needed anyway. Many painters offer brazing work as an option between strip and paint.

Can you take pics of the ports so we can compare to factory? I'd be curious if the reinforcement has the same shape - it looks the same from what I can see in your pics so far.

fraba

Interesting. I also looked at Tre Cime but it did not come with a riveted head badge I think. So a Treviso with cable ports addition could make sense.

CO_Hoya 

Yeah, it would be a simple explanation.

OP - what is the branding on the dropouts? I think Pinarello switched to their own branding around 1987, so that could help with dating.

Vince Hoffmann

This is frame isn’t a Tre Cime or Prestige, both bikes have a brazed fork where this is cast.
Yep, branded dropouts front and back, and here are closeups of the cable guides

CO_Hoya 

Those do look factory. Are they chromed as well? It looks like plain steel where the paint is missing but hard to see. Lack of chrome would point to a retrofit.

Here are some on a Montello with lots of paint loss showing both primer, and the chrome under that:

Vince Hoffmann

I found a photo of a restored Maxim with the same cable port spacing, but mine is definitely not a Maxim...

fraba

Just to know, how sure are you about Pinarello branded dropouts being 1987 and after? I just got a Pinarello (very likely Treviso but hey, we never know ) with dropouts exactly like OP's bike. The seller, the original buyer, bought it 1985 or 1986. Haven't see the invoice but it is equipped with first gen Campy C Record.

P!N20

Pretty much, like I alluded to in post #2 .

*droool*

They first appeared in the '87 catalogue, not that there's a close-up shot of them, but they appear slightly different to the '85 offerings.

It's more than likely they were playing around with Pinarello stamped dropouts before the catalogue came out.

billytwosheds 

This looks a lot like an early 90's Pinarello Cadore I used to have (and regret selling).

Sort of hard to tell from this pic, but the internal brake cable routing and stay bridge were both present. Same down tube sticker and lugs look the same too.

Think it was a 1993 or so.

Columbus Cromor, 27.2 seatpost.

Vince Hoffmann

Indeed But I have never seen a Treviso with internal cable routing. It just seems odd that it would be the only one. Otherwise, everything else about the frame matches the Treviso exactly. I have heard that Pinarello would occasionally build frames that would not show (or show differently) in their catalogs.

P!N20

Here's one: Pinarello Treviso - 59cm Campagnolo - Sell Your Gear

And here's another one: https://bicyclebuysell.com/user/item...steel-frameset

You're right - the catalogues should be used as a guide only. For instance the Maxim and Gran Turismo models didn't even get a page in the (known) catalogues, yet we know they exist! Whenever Pinarellos come up for ID, there's always something that isn't consistent with the catalogue specs - sometimes it's too easy to get hung up on the details (guilty!)

Who knows, perhaps a wholesaler ordered a bunch of Treviso frames with internal routing? Maybe a previous owner had the cable guides removed in favour of the internal routing? It's all speculation - it's a pity Pinarello are only interested in the here and now so we could find out a bit more about these things (like, what the hell do those serial numbers mean?)

After all that, do you have the head badge?

Vince Hoffmann

@P!N20
You da man!

Vince Hoffmann

No, I don't. It was hard enough just finding a restorable frame like this and someone in the past decided they wanted to keep the head badge for themselves. I really doubt I will be able to find another one, but I can have a reproduction made, so I have choices. Rest assured I won't be replacing it with a sticker !

P!N20

I was looking* for one for a while, not that my frame has any holes to accommodate one, but I thought it would have been cool to have one. A couple came up, mostly in average/poor condition with mint price tags. There was only one that came up that was in good condition for a reasonable price - it got snapped up before I even got to the sale page! Settled for the decal instead.

I wonder if you could find a 'cheap' Lungavita, remove the head badge and sell the bike? Although their head badge is an adhesive job - no holes for rivets:



* When I say looking, I mean a saved search on ebay.

Vince Hoffmann

Last week I took the frame and fork down to D&D Cycles in San Lorenzo to be stripped. Once that is done, the mystery about the internal cable routing will be solved. The owner noticed a very small divot on the top tube where it appears a cable lug was removed, and he also noted that the brazing job for the internal cable routing was very well done. He also agrees that this is a early-mid 80's Treviso.
Regardless, this will be a late summer rebuild project for my wife.