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Need some help/advice on applying "old" decals

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Need some help/advice on applying "old" decals

Old 08-09-19, 06:13 PM
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Need some help/advice on applying "old" decals

Hello,
I am restoring a "Domenic's" and found some original (old 80's) decals for the restoration.
They are reverse water slides (see pics) and in good shape no tearing or flaking.
The problem I am having is that after applying the glue that was originally used does not seem to be adhering well.
The first set that I applied went on well with no tearing etc. but flake off easily after they are dry...is there a water slide glue the I can use that will help the decals "set" and not flake off?
I have read on the net that Microset/sol is one option, I am curious what others have used when encountering a similar situation.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks, Ben



The glue is on this side and after they are applied they are flaking off after they dry...thus the glue is not holding. If I can get them to stick my plan would be to use a clear but I need them to adhere well first so there is no curling.
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Old 08-09-19, 06:41 PM
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You might ask the decal expert, Cyclomondo. Here's Greg's email:

gtsoftley@ozemail.com.au

and website: http://cyclomondo.net/
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Old 08-12-19, 08:36 PM
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Thanks SR,
Anyone else have any ideas?
Ben
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Old 08-13-19, 01:24 AM
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I am about to install a set of water slide decals on my Rabeneick 120d. The maker insisted that the decals, once applied and dry, be clear coated. The clear coat will be sprayed on the entire frame, over paint, decals and exposed chrome plated parts.
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Old 08-13-19, 01:59 AM
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Talk to Ed Litton in Richmond or one of the builders/painters in SoCal like Joe Bell. You might even be able to pay to have them applied for you.

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Old 08-13-19, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Talk to Ed Litton in Richmond or one of the builders/painters in SoCal like Joe Bell. You might even be able to pay to have them applied for you.

verktyg
Hello and thanks for the replies, applying the decals is not the issue, it is getting them to adhere properly that is the issue.
Once they are dry the won't hold, it is if the glue is too old to for them to stick to the frame.
Applying an enamel clearcoat simply lifts them, they are originals from the 80's with vibrant colors so I was hoping that there was a solution that I could use to get them to stick before applying the clear.
Best, Ben
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Old 08-13-19, 03:47 PM
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So I am going to offer a wild a** guess at this. I am not an expert. Hairspray is a water soluble glue. Perhaps you could try this on something thin and apply it to a pipe or conduit and see if it sticks. The idea here is if it works, great, if not there was not much invested. I would think that you would spray it, let it dry then wet and apply. Hopefully enough glue stays in place to allow it to stick. You might try several coats. Fail fast.

If that doesn't work try the experts. They look like perfect decals. I don't blame you for wanting to use these and re-applying the correct glue. I would do the same.
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Old 08-13-19, 11:33 PM
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since you say these are from the '80s I might guess NOT varnish-set (generally quite earlier) or water-slide (next gen) but could be some variety of "rub-down" transfer, AKA chroma-tec (a trademark I probably misspelled, but it was sometimes used as 'generic').
If so these were made with a process that used hand-applied lacquer inks sort of akin to screen-printing yet different) on a release paper (or plastic film) and the final coat was the adhesive which could be a sticky wax or something more refined...but you might have adhesive coating that's dried up and will not stick. The way these are applied is you position them on your surface, sometimes helped to tape with a low-tack removable tape, then burnish over the transfer with a smooth tool made for this and CAREfully peel up the carrier paper/film as the transfer sticks to your surface...it often was nerve-wrackingly slow and dicey cause the delicate thin lac inks could crack and separate if you lost patience, and some of the adhesives did not like the surfaces you applied them on. If you DON'T have such 'chroma-tec' transfers then this is all a bunch of useless trivia...until you do!
Forgot to mention that the final steps were laying a clean paper over the transfer and burnishing over-all to fully smooth and stick flat, then if you wanted protection (the lac inks were surprisingly fade and weather resistant but really easy to scratch!) you could clear-coat them but this was a VERY risky deal. Since inks were lac-based any clear with acetone or MEK could "melt" them, and safe clears like Kristal Klear acrylic still had to be tested first just to be sure. If you had a safe one you went slow and misted a first couple coats and allowed drying before adding heavy coats to build.

DOH! re-read and you say these are "old water-slide" so ignore all written above, unless it turns out this is helpful after-all for somebody else or for the "next time"

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Old 08-14-19, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
since you say these are from the '80s I might guess NOT varnish-set (generally quite earlier) or water-slide (next gen) but could be some variety of "rub-down" transfer, AKA chroma-tec (a trademark I probably misspelled, but it was sometimes used as 'generic').
If so these were made with a process that used hand-applied lacquer inks sort of akin to screen-printing yet different) on a release paper (or plastic film) and the final coat was the adhesive which could be a sticky wax or something more refined...but you might have adhesive coating that's dried up and will not stick. The way these are applied is you position them on your surface, sometimes helped to tape with a low-tack removable tape, then burnish over the transfer with a smooth tool made for this and CAREfully peel up the carrier paper/film as the transfer sticks to your surface...it often was nerve-wrackingly slow and dicey cause the delicate thin lac inks could crack and separate if you lost patience, and some of the adhesives did not like the surfaces you applied them on. If you DON'T have such 'chroma-tec' transfers then this is all a bunch of useless trivia...until you do!
Forgot to mention that the final steps were laying a clean paper over the transfer and burnishing over-all to fully smooth and stick flat, then if you wanted protection (the lac inks were surprisingly fade and weather resistant but really easy to scratch!) you could clear-coat them but this was a VERY risky deal. Since inks were lac-based any clear with acetone or MEK could "melt" them, and safe clears like Kristal Klear acrylic still had to be tested first just to be sure. If you had a safe one you went slow and misted a first couple coats and allowed drying before adding heavy coats to build.

DOH! re-read and you say these are "old water-slide" so ignore all written above, unless it turns out this is helpful after-all for somebody else or for the "next time"
Good Advice for "Non" water slides.
Ben
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Old 08-14-19, 07:56 PM
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You may use glue stick (water based glue) to apply a thin layer on the surface where your water slide decals will be applied.
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Old 08-14-19, 08:10 PM
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Old school water slide decals generally used gelatin as the primary adhesive. You could try doing the same by improvising some hide glue. Heat up bit of knox/clear gelatin in water to about 140F . Smear a few drops on the tube surface, then apply normally. I've used this for similar stuff but not decals, so test on scrap. I bet it works fine.

There are also commercial decal application solutions that contain a small amount of adhesive. Check your local hobby shop.
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Old 08-15-19, 12:53 PM
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I have used a thin smear of Elmers glue, which works well. But you have to carefully work out all the bubbles of glue, until there appears to be nothing left, and then you have to let it dry for a week or two.

I have also used simple syrup (equal measurements of water and sugar by volume, bring to a boil, let cool). It's easier to work with, but the bubbles are harder to see. Again, you have to work out all the bubbles, and until it dries the decal will be fragile. It will get tougher in a day or two, but you can't be sure it's really dry for a week or two.

Both of these water based adhesives allow the decal to slide around until you have the location right until you start pressing the glue out. Once the glue is really dry, the decals are durable. Even so, clearcoat helps.
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