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My Kingdom for a freewheel! (that fits) any suggestions?

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My Kingdom for a freewheel! (that fits) any suggestions?

Old 10-16-19, 01:33 PM
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gilatm
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My Kingdom for a freewheel! (that fits) any suggestions?

Hello, this is my first posting to bikeforums!

I have decided that my 1972 Paramount that I have had since 1974 needed to be up and running again after a decade (sadly) without use. (I put on many miles on this bike before an accident involving an auto dampened my bike commute habit.) I have managed to get brakes and wheels set up. But I am in need of a new freewheel. (Getting the old 14-32 Suntour off took me several days of bp blaster treatments). I would like a 14-26 or 14-28 5 speed, but apparently few will fit my 120mm rear stays. (On a whim I ordered a Shimano mf-tz20 14-26 6 speed, and a Sunrace 14-28 5s 120343 but both are too thick to fit my backstay.) Measuring my old Suntour, it is only 25mm thick, these are around 5-6mm thicker, leaving no axle left to fit into my rear stays.

Are there any new freewheels that will fit my bike?
Any suggestions are welcome!

Thanks!
Gil
Ventura, CA
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Old 10-16-19, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gilatm View Post
Hello, this is my first posting to bikeforums!

I have decided that my 1972 Paramount that I have had since 1974 needed to be up and running again after a decade (sadly) without use. (I put on many miles on this bike before an accident involving an auto dampened my bike commute habit.) I have managed to get brakes and wheels set up. But I am in need of a new freewheel. (Getting the old 14-32 Suntour off took me several days of bp blaster treatments). I would like a 14-26 or 14-28 5 speed, but apparently few will fit my 120mm rear stays. (On a whim I ordered a Shimano mf-tz20 14-26 6 speed, and a Sunrace 14-28 5s 120343 but both are too thick to fit my backstay.) Measuring my old Suntour, it is only 25mm thick, these are around 5-6mm thicker, leaving no axle left to fit into my rear stays.

Are there any new freewheels that will fit my bike?
Any suggestions are welcome!

Thanks!
Gil
Ventura, CA
If you are a paying member (not expensive), then you can place a want-to-buy (WTB) ad in the classic/vintage sales section. I'm sure someone here will have something they can sell you for a fair price. It's a great marketplace for this stuff. Welcome!
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Old 10-16-19, 01:56 PM
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This thread indicates that you might be searching for a Regina Oro freewheel to match what is no longer working on yours.

You stated that it's a Suntour, are you certain? Is the outer lock nut on the freewheel side recessed inside the freewheel body?

Last edited by Unca_Sam; 10-16-19 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 10-16-19, 01:56 PM
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I'm surprised that a modern 5 speed won't fit but I'd stick with a modern 5 speed as the tooth profile on new freewheels are by and large pretty good (especially when compared to most older freewheels).

If the 5 speed doesn't work, just add a 1 mm spacer to either side of the axle. You'll want to make sure that there is enough axle sticking out to grap on to the drop outs properly. You'll end up with a 122 mm rear wheel. It won't be hard to get that to slide in the frame.

You likely have 5 or so mm of axle showing on either end so this should work.

Here is an article with some useful info:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Last edited by bikemig; 10-16-19 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 10-16-19, 01:58 PM
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A couple questions, what made you decide you needed a new FW? what was the issue with the Suntour? There are a few videos on You Tube for rehabbing old FW's and there is a BF member who refurbishes, -https://www.freewheelspa.com/ them also look for a bike co-op near you as they can be a great source of vintage parts odd the SunRace 5 speed was too thick. Just measured an old Atom I had laying around and its about 25mm too
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Old 10-16-19, 02:07 PM
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According to your measurements, both the modern 5 and 6 speed freewheels are the same width as both are 5-6 mm wider than your existing 5 speed freewheel.

That doesn't sound right.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
According to your measurements, both the modern 5 and 6 speed freewheels are the same width as both are 5-6 mm wider than your existing 5 speed freewheel.

That doesn't sound right.
Sunrace freewheels (OP's 5 speed) have a reputation for being thicker than others, and I can confirm this is the case due to my experience with Sunrace's 7-speed freewheel. I like it and it works well, but I had to decide whether to use a different wheelset or re-dish the one I was intending to use. (I went with the different wheelset.)
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Old 10-16-19, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
Sunrace freewheels (OP's 5 speed) have a reputation for being thicker than others, and I can confirm this is the case due to my experience with Sunrace's 7-speed freewheel. I like it and it works well, but I had to decide whether to use a different wheelset or re-dish the one I was intending to use. (I went with the different wheelset.)
right but shouldn't the 5 speed be narrower than the 6? The measurements given were about the same for both.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:20 PM
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I happen to have a new Sunrace 5-speed sitting on my desk, next to my Mauser calipers: 30mm overall width.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
right but shouldn't the 5 speed be narrower than the 6? The measurements given were about the same for both.
That’s the point, though... the Sunrace 5 is thicker than normal 5, and in this case is equivalent to a Shimano 6.

Last edited by noobinsf; 10-16-19 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:26 PM
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Thanks, that is a good idea. I know that I could source out old stock, but I'm wondering if there are any new freewheels that might fit. (I am generally disheartened how few new parts fit my old bike.)
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Old 10-16-19, 02:32 PM
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(Regarding "is it a Suntour - the board does not allow me to quote messages, as it views it as a url link, and I have not yet met my 10 post min.)

Yes it is a suntour 8.8.8., the Regina wore out years ago - was not particularly fond of it. As I recall, the freewheel tool barely fit into it, making removal difficult.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:34 PM
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re: I'm surprised that a modern 5 speed won't fit but I'd stick with a modern 5 speed as the tooth profile on new freewheels are by and large pretty good (especially when compared to most older freewheels).

No, they were both around 30mm thick. They protrude past my lock nut for the axel, and do not leave enough axel for me to safely attach to frame.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:36 PM
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re: A couple questions, what made you decide you needed a new FW? what was the issue with the Suntour? There are a few videos on You Tube for rehabbing old FW's and there is a BF member who refurbishes, them also look for a bike co-op near you as they can be a great source of vintage parts odd the SunRace 5 speed was too thick. Just measured an old Atom I had laying around and its about 25mm too

I don't want a 32 tooth gear, but you have a good point of resetting the gear rings. (I have vague memories of breaking a freewheel apart many moons ago.) My question is, though, if any new freewheels would fit.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:49 PM
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I think you have many options available to you that will work. Thankfully friction shifting doesn't play favorites as long as the derailleur limits are set up well. Try a LBS, Coop, or one of the many internet retailers still offering 5 speed freewheels.

Edit: Harris Cyclery has one specifically noted for 120 MM spacing for $17 with 14-28 gearing.

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Old 10-16-19, 03:10 PM
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Sounds like you need a longer axle so you can use a new, wider freewheel. That's an easy fix, given you have $18 for the axle and a hacksaw to cut it to the appropriate length, about 10mm wider than your dropouts.

You can add a new 5-speed freewheel, but I would go ahead and spread the rear drops another 6mm and use a 6- or 7-speed. I did this to my 1960 Paramount. It's not difficult to do using a bolt and nuts between drops. RJ covers it on youtube.
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Old 10-16-19, 04:18 PM
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If anyone on here would have one, it would be Pastor Bob. He is a longtime member here.

He is the freewheel man.

https://www.freewheelspa.com/
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Old 10-16-19, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by gilatm View Post

Are there any new freewheels that will fit my bike?
Any suggestions are welcome!

Thanks!
Gil
Ventura, CA
Hi Gil- I suggest not to bother with Sunrace. Though I understand you want new, so with that just shop ebay for what you had and in 14-28t but search NOS (new old stock). Add the usual - specifications in knowing correct thread. Paying $20-30 more for vintage is worth it.

Another option is to acquire a few freewheel bodies and then cogs and spacers, seperately. Build your own combo. Boulder Bike is good for Regina cogs.

BTW: I use a 6 speed Regina on a 120mm spaced Teledyne with very thin dropouts. Threaded to a first year production Dura Ace hub. With certain, its a relaxed fit and no spreading of the rear, something I did not want to risk with this frame.



Last edited by crank_addict; 10-16-19 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 10-18-19, 12:20 AM
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Thanks for the good information! Jim from this forum has set me up with a Suntour freewheel.

BTW, my measurement was off, the Suntour is 27mm wide, not 25. But that 3mm made a difference!

Thanks again to all and to Jim.

Gil
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Old 10-18-19, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gilatm View Post
Thanks for the good information! Jim from this forum has set me up with a Suntour freewheel.

BTW, my measurement was off, the Suntour is 27mm wide, not 25. But that 3mm made a difference!

Thanks again to all and to Jim.

Gil
Gil,

Welcome to C&V and let's get your posts higher so you can post pictures of your Paramount! I have a '71 P-13 Chicago and an '83 Waterford Paramounts.

Glad you found a replacement for your Suntour. As I read through the posts to catchup, I was going to let you know I have plenty of spare sprockets for Suntour freewheels and can generally swap what you don't want for what you'd like. Also the Suntour Perfects and ProCompes or 8.8.8s all are very durable, and generally only need cleaning, new lube, and occasionally new bearings. In fact, I worked on these three the last two nights for a couple of clients.



As you can see there is still a great deal of life left in these. The two silver sprocketed ones the client needed very specific gearing, and I only had silver Winner type sprockets to use. In this case he was very specific about his gearing.

Let me know if I can assist and best of luck in getting your Paramount back to road worthy!
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Old 10-18-19, 11:36 AM
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Thanks for the information on switching out sprockets. I'll see how this range works (I have a 40/52 in front). I'm going to have to get my butt in shape (I'm more worried about it than my legs) and get stonger before I look for more narrow gearing. (Losing some weight would also help!) I have great affection for this bike, and have always liked the light spring of the frame. I'll post a pic when allowed by the internet gods.
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Old 10-18-19, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gilatm View Post
(I am generally disheartened how few new parts fit my old bike.)
Don't be. Old parts are cooler anyway.
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Old 10-19-19, 12:00 AM
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speaking of old parts, I've been planning on using my old trust Suntour VGT - I cleaned it and it works but has seen better days. Any suggestions on a replacement?

(I have the old original NR Camp. derailleur, but I think it only worked on the original 48/52 x 14-26 gears. I am running 42/52, 14-28 so 24 tooth capacity is needed.)

-- one step closer to sending a pic. : )
Gil
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Old 10-19-19, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gilatm View Post
speaking of old parts, I've been planning on using my old trust Suntour VGT - I cleaned it and it works but has seen better days. Any suggestions on a replacement?

(I have the old original NR Camp. derailleur, but I think it only worked on the original 48/52 x 14-26 gears. I am running 42/52, 14-28 so 24 tooth capacity is needed.)

-- one step closer to sending a pic. : )
Gil
I have three roadworthy bikes at the moment, and all of them are running long cage Suntour friction (two Cyclone, one Blue Line). Use the VGT -- Suntour gets a lot of well-earned respect here.
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Old 10-19-19, 03:01 AM
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I probably have a spare Suntour that can handle that range. You can hang it on your Paramount for the cost of shipping.

Have you considered a triplizer for your Campy Record crankset? Many of us older and heavier folk rely upon them and I have one on my '71 P13. We're not all TdF racers! BF member @jonwvara has them. I have a link on my freewheelspa.com website (bottom of the "Full Menu & Prices" tab and linked below).



In the picture above I was running my extreme mountain climbing gearing: 50-42-31 X 16-20-25-30-34-38 (currently have a more reasonable 13-16-20-26-30). My triplizer is an old one which is no longer made. The one Jon Vara has is modeled after a TA version.
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