How old is Vintage Carbon?
10-20-19 | 09:35 PM
#1
Thread Starter
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From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 1981 Holdsworth Special, 1993 C-dale MT3000 & 1996 F700CAD3, 2018 & 2019 Cervelo R3’s & 2022 R5, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)
How old is Vintage Carbon?
1979 Holdsworth Special - √ vintage
1996 Cannondale F700 - √ probably
2011 Cervelo R3 - beats me!
Just how old does Carbon have to be, to be “Vintage”?
will Carbon ever be really Vintage until it’s replaced with unobtanium framed bikes?
Barry
1996 Cannondale F700 - √ probably
2011 Cervelo R3 - beats me!
Just how old does Carbon have to be, to be “Vintage”?
will Carbon ever be really Vintage until it’s replaced with unobtanium framed bikes?
Barry
10-21-19 | 07:46 AM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2018
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From: USA
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
I would ask what's the criteria for something to be considered vintage? How old does something need to be? Is it like music where after a certain length of time it becomes a "classic" genre or song? It shouldn't be based on materials (ie. steel, alu, carbon or Ti).
10-21-19 | 07:51 AM
#3
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Long-time debate (putting it nicely), filled with opinions.
There are people on this forum that like to set their own rules for "vintage" re: age.
There are people on this forum that just look at the bike and decide they like it.
There are people on this forum that say a carbon bike can't be "vintage."
There are older, first-generation carbon bikes that look mimic lugged steel bikes in the approach to frame design, and almost as old are frames like Kestrel, Aegis, etc that were the predecessors of today's carbon frames, at least in appearance.
I'm sure, for many, it would be a lot easier if the Italian firms had started the whole carbon thing.
You have to decide for yourself what is vintage, what is classic, and then see if the market agrees.
Just when you do, you take a 3-year old bike to a show and some guy looks at it and says, "that's a classic."
There are people on this forum that like to set their own rules for "vintage" re: age.
There are people on this forum that just look at the bike and decide they like it.
There are people on this forum that say a carbon bike can't be "vintage."
There are older, first-generation carbon bikes that look mimic lugged steel bikes in the approach to frame design, and almost as old are frames like Kestrel, Aegis, etc that were the predecessors of today's carbon frames, at least in appearance.
I'm sure, for many, it would be a lot easier if the Italian firms had started the whole carbon thing.
You have to decide for yourself what is vintage, what is classic, and then see if the market agrees.
Just when you do, you take a 3-year old bike to a show and some guy looks at it and says, "that's a classic."
10-21-19 | 08:40 AM
#4
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,305
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From: Peoria, IL
The earliest production frame that used carbon fiber, to my knowledge, was the Exxon Graftek. It was produced around 1976. Bicycle Guide magazine did a fine article on it.
The article does mention that some prototypes of carbon fiber bikes were built prior to this, such as Raleigh.
page 1:
page 2:
page 3:
The Graftek does show up at vintage bike shows now and then too....
I don't think that there is any question about it being accepted as suitably vintage.
Steve in Peoria
The article does mention that some prototypes of carbon fiber bikes were built prior to this, such as Raleigh.
page 1:
page 2:
page 3:
The Graftek does show up at vintage bike shows now and then too....
I don't think that there is any question about it being accepted as suitably vintage.
Steve in Peoria
10-21-19 | 09:19 AM
#5
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
To echo Robbie...there are differences of opinion on what vintage means...and most of us agree that classic is largely subjective. To me, a Trek Y-foil is certainly classic based on its radical design, history with the tour...coolness.
Vintage? I guess under a 20 year standard. I don't care about vintage...I care about classic. The vast majority of "vintage" bikes were, and are, low end and not especially appealing. Honestly, I hate the word vintage...it's just too marketing and buzzy for me.
Count me among those who think carbon can certainly be classic, and it's often every bit, or more, labor intensive than the steel bikes we think are "craft".
Vintage? I guess under a 20 year standard. I don't care about vintage...I care about classic. The vast majority of "vintage" bikes were, and are, low end and not especially appealing. Honestly, I hate the word vintage...it's just too marketing and buzzy for me.
Count me among those who think carbon can certainly be classic, and it's often every bit, or more, labor intensive than the steel bikes we think are "craft".
10-21-19 | 10:06 AM
#6
Thread Starter
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From: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 1981 Holdsworth Special, 1993 C-dale MT3000 & 1996 F700CAD3, 2018 & 2019 Cervelo R3’s & 2022 R5, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)
Troll
OK - Thank you all for the reserved comments. I've apparently hit upon a point of contention and that Vintage/Classic is very much in the eye of the beholder.
I like that determination, it encourages participation.
I read the first few replies and thought this could go south quickly, here comes my ban hammer as a troll. 8-)
BTW, those Stainless lugs on the Graftek are AWSOME !
I had no idea Carbon frames went back that many years.
FINAL RESULT
2011 Cervelo R3 - Nope! not even close to being Vintage Carbon.
All the best
Barry
I like that determination, it encourages participation.
I read the first few replies and thought this could go south quickly, here comes my ban hammer as a troll. 8-)
BTW, those Stainless lugs on the Graftek are AWSOME !
I had no idea Carbon frames went back that many years.
FINAL RESULT
2011 Cervelo R3 - Nope! not even close to being Vintage Carbon.
All the best
Barry
