Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Aegis- is it a wall hanger?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Aegis- is it a wall hanger?

Old 02-12-20, 08:36 AM
  #1  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 1,383

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 101 Posts
Aegis- is it a wall hanger?

Well, I got the Aegis home, and saw that the "paint" chipping goes deeper than I thought... Told that it was multiple layers of paint, I did not examine it sufficiently, and now that I'm home, shining a bright light on the area in question, I have serious doubts.

I have minimal experience with carbon fiber frame issues. It does pass the "coin tapping" test, as far as I can tell. I know that while CF problems may be invisible on the outer surface, they may still exist and be ripe for catastrophic failure. I am planning to examine the inside of the tubes to the best of my ability, both visually and by swabbing with cotton to try to determine if the tube has been compromised. In the meantime, here is a photo of the area I am most concerned about. How important is finding no sign of damage or fraying inside, in terms of safety? Degree of confidence for riding to the Post Office?

Visible layers: 1)Gray topcoat, 2)yellow primer, 3)thin dark gray layer, 4) thin pink layer, 5) dark gray layer, 6) medium gray layer is base at bottom of chipped area, with a 2x3 mm scratch on that bottom layer.

Trying for better shot now.

Last edited by Last ride 76; 02-12-20 at 09:14 AM.
Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 09:16 AM
  #2  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 1,383

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 101 Posts
Aegis Chip Damage Photograph

Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 09:25 AM
  #3  
base2 
Senior Member
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,148

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 93 Posts
The gray layers (5 & 6) are the carbon lay up.

The tube is probably exceptionally thin in that location.

Professional action is needed.
__________________
My lights are obscenly bright because drivers are dim.

I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
base2 is offline  
Old 02-12-20, 09:32 AM
  #4  
TugaDude
Senior Member
 
TugaDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,091
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 33 Posts
Not safe to ride in the condition it is in. If you wish to have it "repaired" there are folks in the bicycle industry that will evaluate it and tell you whether they can do it, how much it will cost and what warranty they will make if any.
Personally, I wouldn't bother, but it might be worth it to you.

I sell carbon fiber as part of my job. The material I sell is for strengthening concrete and other structural members either when they are damaged and/or when a building or bridge has increased structural loads placed on it and needs to be strengthened/reinforced.
As part of my job I have to help train and educate. There is a lot that can go wrong, from design to specification to installation. I cannot stress enough the attention it requires and deserves.

If I saw that kind of damage on a structural member, I would recommend it be removed and replaced. A patch is a patch is a patch. I wouldn't risk my life over one. But that's me, YMMV.
TugaDude is offline  
Old 02-13-20, 01:47 PM
  #5  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 1,383

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 101 Posts
Aegis Chip Damage Photograph

Rats.

That's what I expected to hear after I exposed the "chipped" area. I don't have to like it, just to learn from it.
I really don't have room for a wall hanger.
Thanks for your informed opinions.
Eric,
moving on...
Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 02-13-20, 07:09 PM
  #6  
Wildwood
Veteran/Pacifist/Resister
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 9,349

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2084 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
Rats.

That's what I expected to hear after I exposed the "chipped" area. I don't have to like it, just to learn from it.
I really don't have room for a wall hanger.
Thanks for your informed opinions.
Eric,
moving on...
Before you leave, may we ask for a pic of the full frame. And it's weight. Thanks.
Wildwood is offline  
Old 02-14-20, 04:48 PM
  #7  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 1,383

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 101 Posts
I forgot I had a plan, developed on my way home from MA...

I have ADHD, it factors into anything regarding my brain...
I stopped for coffee on the way home from Boston, and after looking at it under bright light, thought the chip might make make the frame unsafe to ride as is. Here's the thing. I need to feel safe riding it. It needs to look good. Buuut...

If it is a bit heavier than an undamaged Aegis, that is not a deal breaker. If it rides with a heavy or dullish feel, that also is not critical to my purpose. I think that changes everything! I think... the solution I thought of, while driving the Aegis home was this - to stabilize and strengthen it from the inside. Using a bundle of thin CF tubes, like a bunch of old fishing rod pieces cut 6-8 inches long and bundled together, and then bonded into place by some type of expanding epoxy matrix, with a degree of flexibility, voila problem of catastrophic failure becomes remote.
As I thought of this, I realized that thin might bediameter bamboo a suitable substitute, if finding CF was difficult. Photo is to demonstrate concept only. I'm pretty sure something like this would provide enough strength to ride the bike around town safely.
Opinions and suggestions regarding this idea, please?

Narrow bamboo tubes, intended to be bundled together, and then firmly bonded, in a slightly flexible epoxy type matrix that also locks them into place, entirely filing the tube, and extending well beyond the chipped area in both directions.

TugaDude;21324897]Not safe to ride in the condition it is in. If you wish to have it "repaired" there are folks in the bicycle industry that will evaluate it and tell you whether they can do it, how much it will cost and what warranty they will make if any.
Personally, I wouldn't bother, but it might be worth it to you.

I sell carbon fiber as part of my job. The material I sell is for strengthening concrete and other structural members either when they are damaged and/or when a building or bridge has increased structural loads placed on it and needs to be strengthened/reinforced.
As part of my job I have to help train and educate. There is a lot that can go wrong, from design to specification to installation. I cannot stress enough the attention it requires and deserves.

If I saw that kind of damage on a structural member, I would recommend it be removed and replaced. A patch is a patch is a patch. I wouldn't risk my life over one. But that's me, YMMV.

Last edited by Last ride 76; 02-15-20 at 07:52 AM.
Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 02-14-20, 08:37 PM
  #8  
jetboy 
Senior Member
 
jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,131

Bikes: centurion ironman, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport, look kg96, various others

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
who not just a CF seat post cut off, then epoxy that up and pound it down until its in the correct place? then your water bottle bolts will hold it in place. done. even if for some reason that chip does cause a failure and the whole frame cracks, it wont actually fall apart.

I actually think the chip is not as bad as you might think.. old CF bikes were pretty thick.
jetboy is offline  
Old 02-15-20, 07:44 AM
  #9  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 1,383

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 101 Posts
Originally Posted by jetboy View Post
who not just a CF seat post cut off, then epoxy that up and pound it down until its in the correct place? then your water bottle bolts will hold it in place. done. even if for some reason that chip does cause a failure and the whole frame cracks, it wont actually fall apart.

I actually think the chip is not as bad as you might think.. old CF bikes were pretty thick.
This is not be the first time I over thought something and missed the "why didn't I think of that?" solution.

The seatpost idea sounds good to me, though "pound it down" is probably not the ideal insertion method, rather take a slightly smaller diameter and a bit more epoxy... But yeah, thanks. Even a cut down aluminum seatpost epoxied in place, (such as the 350 mm post that came with the bike No, it does not reach far enough as is.) would make this a good looking around town bike.
Better that, than sawing in half and sending to a landfill.

Any safety reasons why not?

With resurrected hope, Cheers, Eric

Last edited by Last ride 76; 02-15-20 at 08:00 AM.
Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 02-15-20, 01:23 PM
  #10  
jetboy 
Senior Member
 
jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,131

Bikes: centurion ironman, look hinault 753, Zunow z-1, 83 stumpy sport, look kg96, various others

Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
This is not be the first time I over thought something and missed the "why didn't I think of that?" solution.

The seatpost idea sounds good to me, though "pound it down" is probably not the ideal insertion method, rather take a slightly smaller diameter and a bit more epoxy... But yeah, thanks. Even a cut down aluminum seatpost epoxied in place, (such as the 350 mm post that came with the bike No, it does not reach far enough as is.) would make this a good looking around town bike.
Better that, than sawing in half and sending to a landfill.

Any safety reasons why not?

With resurrected hope, Cheers, Eric
heh. well pound softly of course! one catch may be at those water bottle bosses.. they may extend inside the tube. get your flashlight out.
jetboy is offline  
Old 02-16-20, 10:48 AM
  #11  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,959

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 694 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 125 Times in 99 Posts
There are all kinds of industrial resins, acrylic, epoxy, etc. which could be used to completely fill the tube between the bottle cage bosses, not more than a couple of ounces would heavily reinforce the damaged area.
An automotive rubber brake piston cup of the right size could provide an initial seal if inserted with some glue on the inside of the tube. Might be flexible enough to be manipulated just past the lower cage boss. When that glue has set, more resin can be poured in, perhaps with some 3" lengths of that bamboo rod material to take up weighty space, but will then have to be forced downward (it would float) gently enough not to disturb the rubber cup.
The bosses would need to have short screws pre-inserted with greased threads of course, so as not to become part of the bonding inside of the tube!

I am of the belief that this frame could be statically tested by putting loads on the pedals, sufficient to determine a degree of safe ridability. The tester should be a bigger person than the rider in this case of ignoring the defect. Older carbon frames had monstrously thicker walls than today's high-quality carbon frames, just compare the weights and don't forget that the tube diameters are also quite a bit smaller.
As a lightweight rider I would likely just ignore this defect, but that's just my opinion based on a couple of 2d images.
dddd is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.