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Identifying unknown frame

Old 06-19-20, 05:16 AM
  #1  
async
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Identifying unknown frame

Hello everyone,

Recently came in possesion of a frame which i cant identify and the owner has no idea either, would be grateful is maybe somebody recognises at least what the manufacturer is

Here is what pieces of information i do have
-Likely italian frame
-Italian thread BB
-Gipiemme dropouts
-Unknown lugs
-26.2 or 26.6 seat tube
-2.189kg frame, allegedly its columbus aelle
-inside of headtube is red, so im thinking it could have been painted red previously

For some reason forum wont let me upload so i put the full image set on imgur
imgur . com/a/ovOI7gU

Thank you, regards

Last edited by async; 06-19-20 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 06-19-20, 06:12 AM
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async , you'll need 10 posts before you can post photos.

Do you intend to build it up and ride it, or sell it?
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Old 06-19-20, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by branko_76 View Post
async , you'll need 10 posts before you can post photos.

Do you intend to build it up and ride it, or sell it?
Oh! that explains it. When i went to upload, it would just pop up a window saying "Alert", and thats that, just an empty window titled "Alert"
Im building it up with the 600 tricolor groupset, just put a coat of primer today, will finish up the paint soon, wanted to also post that here but guess my plan is foiled now!
If i were to sell it, i dont even know how to appraise it (i didnt ask for appraisal on purpose, because then it'd be in the wrong forum section).
Time to post more on the forums i guess.

I just wanted to know what frame it is (or hell, even the lugs), just to know about the history of what im sitting on and what i have. Im tired already of people asking me "cool, what frame is it?" and me replying "dont know, guy selling also didnt know".
There's some knowledgable folks here so i wouldnt be surprised if someone figures it our by some detail by some off-chance.
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Old 06-19-20, 08:26 AM
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async Photo assist:














Brent
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Old 06-19-20, 08:34 AM
  #5  
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It looks pretty generic and early 1980s. A 26.6mm post would be one size too small even got Aelle, though it would be appropriate for Zeta. 26.2mm was common for a lot of Italian light weight hi-tensile steels. However, I typically wouldn't expect frames with these tubesets to have investment cast fittings and reinforcing tangs.
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Old 06-19-20, 09:16 AM
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async
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
async Photo assist:

Brent
Thank you Brent!


Originally Posted by [color=#222222
T-Mar]It looks pretty generic and early 1980s. A 26.6mm post would be one size too small even got Aelle, though it would be appropriate for Zeta. 26.2mm was common for a lot of Italian light weight hi-tensile steels. However, I typically wouldn't expect frames with these tubesets to have investment cast fittings and reinforcing tangs.
Interesting, that's already telling information! My vernier says its 26.2, but when i put a 26.2 seat its not like its loose, but it takes a bit too much travel to clamp down for my taste, so im thinking it might be even 26.4 or 26.6 (but 26.4 isnt that common, is it?)
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Old 06-19-20, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by async View Post
Thank you Brent!




Interesting, that's already telling information! My vernier says its 26.2, but when i put a 26.2 seat its not like its loose, but it takes a bit too much travel to clamp down for my taste, so im thinking it might be even 26.4 or 26.6 (but 26.4 isnt that common, is it?)
26.4 wasn't common on Italian road bikes, but was a some what common size post on Japanese built Road and MTB's so these posts are pretty easy to find.
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Old 06-19-20, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by zukahn1 View Post
26.4 wasn't common on Italian road bikes, but was a some what common size post on Japanese built Road and MTB's so these posts are pretty easy to find.
My La jeune by B.Carre is 26.4 and has the same lugs.

Last edited by Wileyone; 06-19-20 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 06-20-20, 06:57 AM
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You're gonna need a fork pretty soon; don't get ahead of yourself.
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Old 06-20-20, 08:14 AM
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async
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
You're gonna need a fork pretty soon; don't get ahead of yourself.
It came with a carbon 1" threadless fork already, i just didnt include it for the pics because im pretty sure its not original to the bike.

imgur.com/UWCPXVs.jpg

I have a 6401 crankset and some other bits and pieces in the box behind as well
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Old 06-20-20, 08:26 AM
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Did someone try and shave down the shifter braze ons?
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Old 06-20-20, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by 3speedslow View Post
Did someone try and shave down the shifter braze ons?
I was wondering that as well, where the posts are.
The holes are threaded though so i can still do it with some longer bolts, i reckon.
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Old 06-20-20, 10:03 AM
  #13  
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the builder was trying to be clever with the upper headlug cut like DeRosa
and the lower one cut like Masi. the under BB cable routing tells us it is 78 or later (usually)
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Old 06-20-20, 11:13 AM
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All those GPM bits (DOs, stay bridges) and the slotted BB shell plus the BB threading certainly says "Italian" but if your seatpost size can be confirmed with a better tool than calipers (which unfortunately are not the best for such an internal tube that can become distorted) POSSIBLE this is an oddball that used METRIC tubing. Very rare for an Italian builder but not unknown and would explain if this is actually 26.4 or 26.6.The stay caps ring a faint bell and may be a distinctive clue, can you add some close-ups to your "album"?

Last edited by unworthy1; 06-20-20 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 06-21-20, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
All those GPM bits (DOs, stay bridges) and the slotted BB shell plus the BB threading certainly says "Italian" but if your seatpost size can be confirmed with a better tool than calipers (which unfortunately are not the best for such an internal tube that can become distorted) POSSIBLE this is an oddball that used METRIC tubing. Very rare for an Italian builder but not unknown and would explain if this is actually 26.4 or 26.6.The stay caps ring a faint bell and may be a distinctive clue, can you add some close-ups to your "album"?
Certainly! I couldn't put them in the same album but i put them in a new one imgur.com/a/JFcLl6O . I put a coat of paint already, sorry if it decreases the details on the image.
I experimented a bit with seatpost and beer can shims. I think its probably not 26.6, I could fit 26.4 there but it was a bit tight, 26.2 also worked, and 26.0 was a bit loose. I think im going with 26.2 just because its the more common of the two between, i think (26.4 and 26.2).
I'm not sure what to infer from that but im kind of pissed everyone decided to make seatposts in steps of 0.2mm, just enough to make things fit poorly, not enough to make any functional difference
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Old 06-21-20, 09:05 AM
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Welcome to the "Looks nice but I have no idea club"

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Old 06-21-20, 01:35 PM
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And still no idea but doesn't look like the slot in the seat lug is TOO distorted so maybe the apparently too-small seat posts are not that far off, but I have no better idea from seeing these except would have a trusted shop with a sizing tool check the seat tube out (IF that was possible in the current lockdown in my town) and notice that the stays appear to be small diameter at th top("pencil stays" or are they "double tapered"?) which are a bit unusual for the apparent era, plus the "ears" have been filled which is a good touch and again something more seen on higher-end frames then ones built from lower grade/price tubing. One more thing (that would have been best to check when the tubes were not painted) but what are the Outer Diameters of all 3 main tubes, best to use a digital caliper or a dial caliper that shows metric fractions?
here's the shots for others to judge




Last edited by unworthy1; 06-21-20 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 06-21-20, 02:35 PM
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Such a cool bike
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Old 06-25-20, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
And still no idea but doesn't look like the slot in the seat lug is TOO distorted so maybe the apparently too-small seat posts are not that far off, but I have no better idea from seeing these except would have a trusted shop with a sizing tool check the seat tube out (IF that was possible in the current lockdown in my town) and notice that the stays appear to be small diameter at th top("pencil stays" or are they "double tapered"?) which are a bit unusual for the apparent era, plus the "ears" have been filled which is a good touch and again something more seen on higher-end frames then ones built from lower grade/price tubing. One more thing (that would have been best to check when the tubes were not painted) but what are the Outer Diameters of all 3 main tubes, best to use a digital caliper or a dial caliper that shows metric fractions?
Hello, sorry for the delay!
I measured out the tubes and they seem to be of the following outer dimensions

Headtube 31.5mm
Downtube 29mm
Seattube 29mm
Top tube: 25.4mm
seatstay double tapered 10.4>>14>>10.8
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