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Compensating for too-small frame?

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Old 07-01-20 | 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
What's GRAIL mean - if you can't ride it?
A fellow I know is a huge fan of The Who. He's gotten the autographs of Daltry, Townshend and Entwistle, and he bought one of Keith Moon's. He has everything they've ever recorded, he's seen them live dozens of times, bla, bla, bla. But the one thing he really lusted after was Rickenbacker guitar like Pete Townshend played (and frequently smashed) -- and not just any ol' Rick, but a proper 1960s Rickenbacker model 360, with a "cherry-burst" finish. Just like Pete played.

After saving-up for the better part of a decade, he was finally able to buy just such a guitar. It cost him more than I paid for my last car. And here's the thing: this fellow doesn't play guitar. He has fingers like Vienna sausages, and no musical talent. But I've never seen him as happy as when he's looking at it hanging on his living room wall, in the center of all of his framed Who memorabilia -- a touchstone to a group of guys who were at their best before he was even born.

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Old 07-01-20 | 03:20 AM
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So, I ended up doing what I've sometimes done in the past, when on the fence: I made a low-ball offer, and left it up to the seller to make up my mind for me, so to speak. I offered what I thought I could re-sell it for, if it doesn't work out (and if I could bear to part with it).

Spoiler alert: I just got notification that they accepted my offer.
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Old 07-01-20 | 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rch427
So, I ended up doing what I've sometimes done in the past, when on the fence: I made a low-ball offer, and left it up to the seller to make up my mind for me, so to speak. I offered what I thought I could re-sell it for, if it doesn't work out (and if I could bear to part with it).

Spoiler alert: I just got notification that they accepted my offer.
After all this, you had better post up some GOOD photos
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Old 07-01-20 | 06:22 AM
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Pics or it didnt happen!
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Old 07-01-20 | 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly
I’ve been working on this a little, any advice?



Cool Miata you have there. How can I be of assistance? Or, what additional work do you feel is necessary to get your bike where you want it?
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Old 07-01-20 | 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I'd like to hear from one of our regulars that believes 2cm in top tube is a "measly" amount. For me, even a half cm in top tube length is significant. A shorter bike cannot simply be made up with a longer stem. It will certainly help make it fit, but the bike will feel very differently. It just takes experience to know.
So I have bikes that have from 70-110mm stems. Sure, they ride different, but they fit. What's the point of having all your bikes ride the same? Do you only ride on a flat oval? That would be tragic.

My biggest issue with a frame too small is bar drop. Not a lot of adjustment in your average stem. Yes, there are stems that can go "up" along with seat, but for me, they look goofy. In addition to not riding a bike that doesn't fit physically, it also needs to fit aesthetically.
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Old 07-01-20 | 11:21 AM
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I was going to say that you cannot properly call it a "grail bike" if it does not fit you, but Wildwood beat me to it.

Originally Posted by rch427
After saving-up for the better part of a decade, he was finally able to buy just such a guitar. It cost him more than I paid for my last car. And here's the thing: this fellow doesn't play guitar. He has fingers like Vienna sausages, and no musical talent. But I've never seen him as happy as when he's looking at it hanging on his living room wall, in the center of all of his framed Who memorabilia -- a touchstone to a group of guys who were at their best before he was even born.
I work at a musical instrument store and we have a term for guys (yes, they're ALWAYS men) like this:

Blues lawyers.
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Millstone
Pics or it didnt happen!
Here you go:
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:35 PM
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:36 PM
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:37 PM
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:37 PM
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:38 PM
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:44 PM
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No, it's not the most exceptional example of their frames; it lacks some of the really special touches that I've seen. And it's by Angelo, rather than Francesco. But it's in the original finish, and I love the color; it's so understated and unusual.
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Old 07-01-20 | 12:53 PM
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Oh nice!! And that would fit me!! I'll PM you my address
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Old 07-01-20 | 01:00 PM
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Wow! Very cool. What year was it made?
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Old 07-01-20 | 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by semroc
Wow! Very cool. What year was it made?
According to the seller, 1977. I think that Angelo retired in the early-'80s, but will defer to others here (Citoyen Du Monde)?
If so, that would make it the newest of my bikes.
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Old 07-01-20 | 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rch427
A fellow I know is a huge fan of The Who. He's gotten the autographs of Daltry, Townshend and Entwistle, and he bought one of Keith Moon's. He has everything they've ever recorded, he's seen them live dozens of times, bla, bla, bla. But the one thing he really lusted after was Rickenbacker guitar like Pete Townshend played (and frequently smashed) -- and not just any ol' Rick, but a proper 1960s Rickenbacker model 360, with a "cherry-burst" finish. Just like Pete played.

After saving-up for the better part of a decade, he was finally able to buy just such a guitar. It cost him more than I paid for my last car. And here's the thing: this fellow doesn't play guitar. He has fingers like Vienna sausages, and no musical talent. But I've never seen him as happy as when he's looking at it hanging on his living room wall, in the center of all of his framed Who memorabilia -- a touchstone to a group of guys who were at their best before he was even born.
A Who concert might be considered as sport, I guess. I understand lightweight vintage collectors may be different from enthusiastic cyclists that want to ride the best from the past and actively practice N+1 in the pursuit. It’s not exactly coveting something but seeking out the finest, from your personal saddle-side perspective with miles to validate assumptions & preconceptions about the frameset + components separately.
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Old 07-01-20 | 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I don't know. I have 5 bikes. Some of you guys have 20 or more. I'm sure many of them "ride the same."

Above, I was talking about "fitting the same," which isn't ... the same.

What's the point of bikes fitting the same? I don't even really want "exactly" that. I want them to be very much in the ballpark with not a huge difference in bar drop.



I don't have a track bike, but do have access to a velodrome. They don't allow road bikes, or I would ride on it.



Agree. And the other side of the goofy looking coin, as you say, is bar drop, which can make a too-small road bike end up looking like a time trial setup.
I'm not that far ahead with 6 bikes.

Feel is different from fit, you mentioned feel, I got the 2 conflated. As it turns out, I am all torso and my affinity for older Italian bikes turned out fortuitous as they typically have a top tube 2-3cm longer than the seat tubes. But I also can deal with a square bike by either an offset seat post (not my favorite look) or a longer stem. My butt/hands position is essentially the same on all my bikes only with the BB moving forward and backwards relative to that seat/bars setup. It is odd to ride one bike with the BB "back" and the next day ride a bike with the BB "forward". But after 5-10 minutes, I'm used to the "new" setup.

If I had the time or inclination, I'd get the exact same bike in my max/min sizes, set both to fit properly with stems/posts and see how different the feel is. I doubt I would notice, I'm no princess by any means, but who knows. I just know I have had bikes too small and I don't like them in the end no matter how much I wished they worked.
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Old 07-02-20 | 12:32 AM
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rch427: thanks for the pics, espescially the first one. The bike is smiling

Really nice bike. Enjoy!
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Old 07-02-20 | 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Millstone
rch427: thanks for the pics, espescially the first one. The bike is smiling

Really nice bike. Enjoy!
Thanks, Millstone! It should be a fun project. I'll post a photo or two once it's built-up, so everyone can scratch their heads and ask "Why the hell would he do that to a Galmozzi?!"
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Old 07-06-20 | 02:46 PM
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Seller called that 55? Lot of headtube for a 55. Even if 55 on centers that is a lot of headtube. Frame drop looks normal, head will look taller if frame has little drop. Sellers don’t always know what they have. You won't know for sure until it is in your hands.

Coaster brake on this one? That hurts. There are some very fine Stucchi and Gloria city bikes with a Galmozzi connection, look for those.
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Old 07-06-20 | 07:16 PM
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Some say that bikes that are a few cm's smaller works for them in terms of handling sense (swaying; flare; spurt). I guess it really differs from one rider to another. Safest is to wait for the right frame or bike to come along. Patience my friend, coz it come to you as a surprise that, it may be a better bike that the one you want now.
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Old 07-07-20 | 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Seller called that 55? Lot of headtube for a 55. Even if 55 on centers that is a lot of headtube.
rch427 , I agree with this comment -- here's hoping the seller mis-measured and you got lucky with a frame larger than 55. That's a pretty frame.
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Old 07-07-20 | 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 63rickert
Seller called that 55? Lot of headtube for a 55. Even if 55 on centers that is a lot of headtube. Frame drop looks normal, head will look taller if frame has little drop. Sellers don’t always know what they have. You won't know for sure until it is in your hands.

Coaster brake on this one? That hurts. There are some very fine Stucchi and Gloria city bikes with a Galmozzi connection, look for those.
That looks more like 58 - 59cm from a glance.
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