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5speed to 6/7speed - same derailleur?

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5speed to 6/7speed - same derailleur?

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Old 07-10-05 | 12:15 PM
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5speed to 6/7speed - same derailleur?

I'm looking at upgrading the rims on my Schwinn Traveler to a set of alloy 27"ers that are 126mm spaced. I know that I will need to spead the rear triangle of the schwinn slightly to make the fit and that's not really a problem. What I'd like to know is if I'm going to have a problem with the current Shimano 400 series derailleur that is currently on the bike. I've tried to do some google searching but haven't turned up any resources that will tell me the tooth or cog number ability of this RD. I'm looking to put on a 6 or 7 speed freewheel with a 12-28t.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
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Old 07-10-05 | 02:16 PM
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The 400 appeared in several variations over the years, so it all depends on which version you have. According to the specs, the original, standard 400 had a capacity and maximum cog size of 28T, so it should handle the gearing, provided you do not not have a differential of more than 12T on the chainrings. However, it was listed as only having 5 speed capacity, so it may not have sufficient throw for 6/7 speeds. Often, the advertised specs were somewhat conservative, so it may still work, despite the official claims. Later versions had equal or greater capacities in terms chain wrap, maiximum cog size and throw.
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Old 07-10-05 | 04:04 PM
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It will probably work fine. If not, look for an "ultra" 6-speed, which takes the same rear axle spread as your standard 5-speed, or set it up to use 6 of the 7 cogs on a 7-speed.
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Old 07-10-05 | 09:08 PM
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Thanks for ya'lls input. I found out the wheels are dished for a 6speed freewheel so that answers that question. I figured I could pick up a 600 or 105 derailleur and swap it in pretty cheap if needs be. Right now I'm mad that my brand new RD cable apparently got hung up in the jockey wheel and is now very much unraveled and covered in oil down to about 1/2 inch of the RD scew. Guess I didn't bend it out of the way well enough. I'll have to cut it down tomorrow and put a new end on it (glad now that I bought a few spares).

I'm planning on taking the schwinn on some group grides with the local bike shop's weekend rides soon. And in September may just set my sights on a metric century ride in East Texas. I've got a bit of work left on this project I guess...
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Old 07-11-05 | 02:56 PM
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Well now I'm back where I started with a new post over in the mechanics forum. I really want to get down to a 13t gear at the bottom and having a hard time finding a 6sp with this setup for a reasonable price.

Oh, and any ideas on how to tell if a hub is setup for a hyperglide or uniglide freewheel? I understand from my research that these are different and would appriciate some insight on this.

-- all this over a $5 ebay Schwinn...
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Old 07-11-05 | 03:23 PM
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hi
check out sheldon browns article (s) on freewheels and freehubs
https://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
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Old 07-11-05 | 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
Well now I'm back where I started with a new post over in the mechanics forum. I really want to get down to a 13t gear at the bottom and having a hard time finding a 6sp with this setup for a reasonable price.

Oh, and any ideas on how to tell if a hub is setup for a hyperglide or uniglide freewheel? I understand from my research that these are different and would appriciate some insight on this.

-- all this over a $5 ebay Schwinn...
12-28's are tough to find, but 13-28's shouldn't be all that hard. Check to see if your LBS has any used ones in the back, keep your eye on e-bay, or you can look for something from someplace like Harris (as the other poster suggested).
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Old 07-11-05 | 04:14 PM
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Harris only has one 13t 6speed (the mega range with a 34t top cog), though the 7's he has are very very pleasing for my needs. Now just to find out what, if anything, is needed to use the 7speed on these wheels.
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Old 07-11-05 | 05:25 PM
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https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW
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Old 07-11-05 | 05:56 PM
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thanks for the link Zorro. Think I saw that one earlier when I was browsing initially. First got to get these wheels, then worry about the freewheel I guess right?

-- still wondering if the dishing for 6 and 7 speed is the same though.
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Old 07-11-05 | 06:12 PM
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As I understand it - with a 126 mm rear dropout, the opportunities for fitting in a 7-speed are limited (without spreading the frame), and would require some dishing adjustments. One of my riding buddies told me that you can rearrange the spacers (which implies a dishing adjustment is needed) on a Campy tipo hub to get it to fit a seven speed. Not sure if there are other makes of hubs where this could be done.
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Old 07-11-05 | 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
I'm looking at upgrading the rims on my Schwinn Traveler to a set of alloy 27"ers that are 126mm spaced. I know that I will need to spead the rear triangle of the schwinn slightly to make the fit and that's not really a problem. What I'd like to know is if I'm going to have a problem with the current Shimano 400 series derailleur that is currently on the bike. I've tried to do some google searching but haven't turned up any resources that will tell me the tooth or cog number ability of this RD. I'm looking to put on a 6 or 7 speed freewheel with a 12-28t.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!
Are you sure you need to spread the rear triangle. 126mm was standard for quite a while.
I have an older Cannondale touring bike with 126 spacing, 5 cog freewheel and Sachs Huret touring derailleur. Due to a problem with the tire/wheel interface, I had to quickly come up with another rear wheel; no time to change freewheels. I took a wheel with a SunTour 6 cog, 13-28 freewheel off an old Nishiki Olympic (same 27" x 1/ 1/8 wheel/tire size as Cannondale's) and simply adjusted the Cannondale's rear derailleur to cover the side to side travel range needed for the 6-speed. That took less than five minutes. No re-dishing the wheel, no fussing with the chain, no spreading the rear triangle (not possible on the aluminum C'dale), no new derailleurs. The set up shifted almost as well as the original 5-speed, just a little rougher, and that could have been due to the wear state of the 6-speed freewheel. But it didn't throw the chain or anything worse.

Try it.
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Old 07-12-05 | 12:28 AM
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[QUOTE=cuda2k]want to get down to a 13t gear at the bottom and having a hard time finding a 6sp with this setup for a reasonable price.

Regina CX's are still around, available cogs 31 down to 12 in 6sp. Used to use a 28-22-18-16-14-12 for mountain stages on my old Trek.

sun

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Old 07-12-05 | 07:54 AM
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I can verify that using a 6 speed on a 126mm dropout will not require re-dishing. Going to a 7 speed will.
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Old 07-12-05 | 09:40 AM
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Thanks for all of the replies. The schwinn this is going on is a 1980 model and I really should just go out there and measure the rear triagle width, but even if it is 120 vs 126, I think I can get enough spring out of the steel to get the new wheel back there without going through the cold set routine. The new wheel I'm getting originally had a 6speed freewheel on it, so that's what I'm going to stick with. With the current 5 speed, I find that even in the lowest gear I can quickly get to where I am spinning at a fairly high cadenence. Though I have to admit I to tend to grind/mash in lower gears vs spin the easier gears more often than I probably should. I've got my eye on a 6 speed that USAZorro pointed me towards that ends on ebay in a couple days along with a NOS Shimano 105 derailleur to replace the Shimano 400 currenly in place. I'll be posting more photos of the upgrades on my website when I get this round completed. After that, short of maybe new brake pads, I'm DONE. (trying to convince myself of this as much as anyone of course)
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Old 07-12-05 | 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
Though I have to admit I to tend to grind/mash in lower gears vs spin the easier gears more often than I probably should.
I've spent a few weeks more than I'd like to admit north od Dallas (used to work for a company founded by a famous former presidential candidate). It all seems relatively flat there - though there were some hills farther out. Could make for some good riding if you can avoid the heat, smog & traffic.
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Old 07-12-05 | 07:58 PM
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Most of my longer rides have been mountain bike trail rides so far, but you are right most of the roads are pretty flat in the dallas area. If you head east or south you can find some good hills pretty quick. I'm getting this bike ready for the Cotton Patch Classic out in east texas this September. Just picked up a brand new (NOS) Shimano 105 derailleur off ebay (6/7 speed version). Add on the alloy rims, new chain and 6 speed rear freewheel and I should be ready for some good distance rides. The traveler isn't the greatest frame out there but some times it's just fun to be the underdog.
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Old 07-13-05 | 12:40 PM
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I'm crazy, I really really am. Here's the new plan, after the ebay auction of the used alloy rims I was going to use went higher than I wanted to...

Going to pick up a brand new alloy wheelset (for like $15 more than the used would have run me) and going to fit a 11-28 7speed freewheel to it from Harris Cyclery. This will move me up to 14 speeds on the old Traveler, shifting with the new 105 RD should be a nice upgrade from the current Shimano 400. Perhaps now I'll run across a clamp on 7speed indexed shifter set... lol... someone stop me!

I really like the idea of the 11-28 speed for all around use and the price fits what I had planned to spend on the freewheel.
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Old 07-13-05 | 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cuda2k
Perhaps now I'll run across a clamp on 7speed indexed shifter set... lol... someone stop me! ...
OK Cuda - I'll try. There should be plenty of frictions shifters that work fine with that. If you insist on the indexed shifters, you might as well get a carbon frame and fork and send the old ones to el twe.
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Old 07-13-05 | 01:51 PM
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lol @ Zorro. Yeah, my upgrade fever has been diverted away from my computer(s) and towards what started out as a $5 ebay bid. I'm (mostly) joking about the SIS shifters.

I do thank you for your input, though it has furthered my craziness and desire for better gear to bolt onto this old ride. I'll get some new pictures up on my website as things come together.
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