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1970 (?) Swiss Cilo Pacer (More Cowbell!) - Campy 3 Arm Grand Sport

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1970 (?) Swiss Cilo Pacer (More Cowbell!) - Campy 3 Arm Grand Sport

Old 08-01-20, 10:38 AM
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CriticalThought
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1970 (?) Swiss Cilo Pacer (More Cowbell!) - Campy 3 Arm Grand Sport

This Cilo fell into my lap recently and I'm looking forward to cleaning it up and riding it. I think it's a 1970 (or maybe aa year or two later) but doing some quick searches didn't turn up nearly as much info as I had hoped. These photos are of it "as found". I'm thinking I'll tidy it up and ride it more or less as-is for a bit, but I am toying with the idea of putting Campagnolo derailleurs back on. I would love to hear what the Campy cognoscenti recommend. I think the (cool) 3 arm crank is a Grand Sport(?), but I'm inclined to go Record with the derailleurs. I don't know much about Campagnolo so I would love to hear thoughts and recommendations.

I'm pretty sure it's all Reynold 531 (and tell-tale paint marks remain where the decals once were on the forks and seat tube), The Rigida clinchers are on what I think are original Campy hubs, but the bikes original rims came with it and I'll clean those up. They're Cerchio Fiamme Red Label. I'd love to hear thoughts on these as well. In particular what types of Campy hubs are these?

And it has a really curious seat post, ( a Fujita Hupel Rider look it up in Velobase ).... for a Swiss bike handmade near the shore of Lake Geneva.

Thanks in advance for any and all info. (more photos to come as she cleans up)

























Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-01-20 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 08-01-20, 10:48 AM
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Beautiful bike. It's all Reynolds. By the way, I have the same seatpost on my Fuji Finest. Why is that rear derailleur on a hanger? That is a campy drop out right? I wouldn't swap out the RD for a campy. The suntour is a better derailleur.

I had one of these that was given to me by a bike shop because it had serious rust issues and totally messed up BB threads. Someone no doubt tried to force an english threaded BB on it. I had the BB reamed out and tapped to Italian and had it repainted. I gave it to my brother who keeps threatening to send it back. One of these days I'll take him up on the offer.
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Old 08-01-20, 11:12 AM
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I think the hubs are the Tipo model.

That entire rear derailleur arrangement is messed up. Derailleur on a claw-foot derailleur hanger attached with a bolt at the derailleur mounting hole in a Campy drop out instead of around the axle. Spooled excess cables? Cut them to size and cap them.

I would correctly attach the derailleur to the dropout. If the threading is incompatible, get a derailleur pair that works - Campy NR comes to mind.

Your link to Velobase does not work for me and will probably not work for any non-member.

Last edited by Bad Lag; 08-01-20 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 08-01-20, 11:15 AM
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An early design for the Wolf Tooth dropout extender?!
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Old 08-01-20, 12:18 PM
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-----

frame -

BOCAMA Professional lug set

Vagner model PL fork crown

bottom bracket shell is BOCAMA Professional

---

Chainset is Campag Sport model 3320, rather than Gran Sport and launched 1971

VeloBase.com - Component: Campagnolo 3320, Sport

---

forum member gaucho777 has this model in a more original state. it is a Pacer from 1972. here is an image of one in a more OEM condition:



top model at this time was termed Sprint X. Pacer is one below.
you will find serial on non-drive side of bottom bracket shell:



Cilo operated 1914-2002.

There is an enthusiast page for Swis cycles located here:

https://www.swissbicycles.com/category/cilo/

[threading/dimensions are metric throughout, not CH]

-----
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Old 08-01-20, 12:23 PM
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Thanks for the info guys. Sorry @bikemig about the link. Not sure of the link-posting-critereia here.

@nlerner I think you're right about the reason for the crazy rear derailleur setup. The rear cluster has a big spread (relatively) and I think this was someones workaround. I'm actually surprised I haven't come across this before given that I'm living in/near the mountains at the moment. I actually appreciate it (not that I want to keep it this way) as I'd hate to see the original hanger cut.

So I took the Cilo out for a ride. The frame is fantastic and the colour is growing on me, especially as it's Swiss. I'm looking forward to cleaning up the frame. The crank bottom bracket feels surprisingly good. The headset not so much. The pedals are great as well. They just need dustcaps and the usual lube & adjustment.

It's pretty odd that someone recently replaced the bar tape, brake cables, and housings... and yet the pads are (feel like) the Weinmanns that came with the bike when new! Imagine going to the trouble to do the cables and all and leaving the old pads. Odd. The wheels weren't true (no surprise) but more worryingly, the cassette didn't spin in plane with the hub. Not sure what's going on there, but looks like the wheels need to be rebuilt. All of this makes me wonder if it was taken to a bike shop to be "fixed up"... and when the cost of the wheel related work came up that was nixed? That still doesn't explain why one would leave completely dried out and ineffective brake pads on there.

I swapped out the wheels with some nice ones and took her out for a ride and headset aside, I was impressed. Looking forward to cleaning her up and getting her out up in the mountains.... seems an appropriate place to fly the old Schweizerfahne.









Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-01-20 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-01-20, 12:43 PM
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That RD can handle a big freewheel without that set up. I thought my Clio was a very good riding bike. Enjoy your new old bike

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Old 08-01-20, 02:20 PM
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Nice Birdy in the background!

The Clio, great lap catch! Clean the mess out of it and watch the heads turn.
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Old 08-02-20, 12:45 AM
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make sure the stem has 50 mm of insertion into the steerer... looks high to me- this was of the time before limit lines.
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Old 01-19-21, 03:13 PM
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Progress.... but not finished just yet

Thought I'd post some updates. Replaced the FD and RD with Campagnolo and just cleaned her up and touched up some scratches. Haven't done anything to the wheels or hubs yet, but they're next (and new tires obviously). But I'm really enjoying how she's looking. And riding when I have other wheels on. Very enjoyable bike!







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Old 01-19-21, 05:03 PM
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Loving the red & white treatment - seems like it's almost glowing now. And that 3-arm steel "Sport" crank remains one of the prettiest things you can bolt onto a bicycle.
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Old 01-19-21, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
Thought I'd post some updates. Replaced the FD and RD with Campagnolo and just cleaned her up and touched up some scratches. Haven't done anything to the wheels or hubs yet, but they're next (and new tires obviously). But I'm really enjoying how she's looking. And riding when I have other wheels on. Very enjoyable bike!


If you can remember to not crosschain big to big you will be fine. the chain might be able to use another link set. It looks Maxed out capacity wise right now, on the verge of painful. Also might be possible to slide the wheel to about the midpoint of the dropout and return the axle adjusters.
Hans Ohrt imported these through 1972, not really after, the exchange rate and the demand fell off. They rode well, and were different.
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Old 01-19-21, 06:20 PM
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Sorry I missed this thread the first go-round. (I don't think the mention function works properly when it auto-fills; I think I read a forum mod say you need to completely finish typing the "@username" on your own for the other member to get notification.)

Great job with the rebuild. Your Cilo looks terrific, and I think it will grow on you over time. I find my Cilo to be both stable and sporty, and also gives a lot of functionality for carrying loads and has ample clearance for wide tires (look for some 32mm or 1-1/4 wide tires in 27"). I've upgraded My Cilo Pacer quite a bit since I first acquired it, but I can shed some light on what came on mine.

Hubs - Yes, those are "Tipo" Nuovo Gran Sport hubs. Most of the Cilo Pacers I've seen did come with these stock. I believe my hubs are Italian threaded, which I always found weird on a Swiss bike with Swiss threading, but who knows what that supply chain was like?
Stem - Original stem was an open-back Pivo 75 stem
Bars - Unmarked French-sized bars. They had a nice curve to them, with long tops - sadly got bent in a crash and had to scrap 'em.
Post - Mine came with an unmarked 2-piece seat pillar with a bolt-on clamp.
Saddle - Mine came with a Wrights saddle, which I suspect was not original. It was cracked and dried out, and gave up the ghost as soon as I tried to tighten it.
Rims - My wheels also came with Tipo hubs but laced to yellow label Fiamme clincher rims. Very nice and light rims, but I opted to rebuild with beefier Wolber Mod. 50 rims and tucked the Fiamme rims away for another day.
Front derailleur - Mine came with a plunger-style Valentino (2050) front derailleur. Not the best performance and kind of a clunky look.
Rear Derailleur - I believe Campagnolo Gran Sport was OEM. Mine came with an upgraded Nuovo Record.
Shifters - Same as your Campagnolo Gran Sport shifters.
Brakes - Same Weinmann Vanquer brakes as you have.
Pedals - Same Lyotard pedals as you have.
Crankset - Mine came with a TA Cyclotouriste crankset, but I believe your 3-piece Gran Sport is OEM.

Btw, I notice our serial numbers are very close too. Mine is 70764 (compared to your 70725).

Fwiw, in terms of gearing, I'm running 53x36 in front and 13 x 26 in back with a NR rear derailleur. It sags a bit when cross-chaining small-small, but it handles an accidental big-big cross-chain without exploding. It can handle a 14-28 FW, too, but I need to pull the rear wheel all the way back in the dropouts.

I've since upgraded my Cilo here & there. This is my most recent photo of how she sits now:

Last edited by gaucho777; 01-27-21 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 01-20-21, 10:34 AM
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Thanks niliraga repechage and gaucho777

I'm kind of surprised how much I'm enjoying this bike, the colors, and the mint 3 arm Campagnolo "sport" crank. I was tempted to bring it back to "original", but I'm glad I didn't. I really like the current set-up, though it remains to be seen if I am able to ride it up my favorite (pretty long and steep!) routes into the mountains near here. I typically ride my more modern (think carbon) bikes up there but I really want to ride this Swiss guy up there! Seems apropos somehow.

I've heard more than one person say they found one of these Pacers with a Wrights saddle (which I always found odd). And I think that little Made in Switzerland decal looks great on this bike as well, but I am pretty sure it was as-original on a different Swiss bike, an Allegro I think. And yes, the rear derailleur does look painful at the moment, but I think it will work (so long as I don't try going big/big!, right!). We shall see. I am hoping to get the hubs and wheels sorted before Spring when the snow melts so that I can post some pictures of it up in some beautiful alpine pastures & passes! And thanks for posting the recent picture of yours, Gauacho! I'm tempted to add the red highlights to the hubs like yours once mine are all polished up.
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Old 01-27-21, 09:57 PM
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Swiss Still Life

Threw on a different set of wheels while I work on the originals... and I kind of like the look of these tires. Might have to go this route longer term!

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