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Cold Setting

Old 08-25-20, 12:07 AM
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Rizaa
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Cold Setting

Hi All!

I just picked up a Ciocc Alelle frame with 126mm rear spacing. I would like to run semi modern (brifters) groupset and hence was wondering if I should have the frame cold set? I just picked up a mid/late 90's campy Veloce groupset with wheels as well. The rear hub is 130mm. When I took off 2mm spacer on non drive side, the hub is able to slide in easily. The LBS close to home can cold set it for $30 and adjust the drops. The owner of the shop did mention that he adjusts it using his hands and uses the tools to measure and correct any adjustments. Wondering if I should leave the bike as is and slide the hub without the 2mm space which sets it at 128mm? Appreciate any feedback and or pointers. Thanks
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Old 08-25-20, 12:23 AM
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I think if you can run the hub without having to cold set is preferable, but there's nothing wrong with cold setting the rear triangle IMO.
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Old 08-25-20, 12:47 AM
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My guess is that you can get away without cold setting the rear triangle. I have done this a few times with no issues, however...

This usually works OK with a bike designed/built to accept a six cog freewheel, not five or less. If the bike starts with a five cog freewheel, the rear drop space will be 120mm. If that is the case, cold set away because, even though a strong person might be able to install the wheel, it will be difficult to do so.
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Old 08-25-20, 12:49 AM
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Ask how many rear triangle cold settings your LBS guy has done. As long as he has some experience and the right alignment tools (it sounds like he has both, but double check), I'd say invest the $30. Two to four millimeters doesn't sound like much, but having the drop outs out of parallel is suboptimal, and putting a 130mm OLD hub in a 126mm spaced triangle puts the dropouts (and the RD hanger) a little bit out of parallel. Is it a big deal? Probably not. But for $30, I'd say go for the cold setting and remove all doubt.
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Old 08-25-20, 01:59 AM
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A 126mm rear drop out can accomodate a 7 speed HG cassette and 7 speed RSX / Sora brifters. I love the 7 speed drivetrain. The more the speeds the more trimming you have to do.
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Old 08-25-20, 11:00 AM
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If you're able to re-center the rim after removing that spacer, and there are no driveline issues with the current setup, I'd say go with it.
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Old 08-25-20, 11:08 AM
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If your spacing gets in the way of a Rae Dawn Chong 7 second wheel change,
I'd cold set it to 130mm. $30 is cheap for a shop to do this, but it's a 10 minute job if you do it often and have the right tools to make sure the wheel is centered and the dropouts are parallel.
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Old 08-25-20, 11:19 AM
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I always considered cold setting a hack, I would not do it or want a frame it was done to. Too much room for imperfection, and I'd rather not have bent seat and chain stays anyway.
There's no downside to giving the remove spacer / re-center the rim method a whirl though.
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Old 08-25-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I always considered cold setting a hack, I would not do it or want a frame it was done to. Too much room for imperfection, and I'd rather not have bent seat and chain stays anyway.
Ha, that's the most curmudgeon-y thing I've read in a long time. Thank you lol
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Old 08-25-20, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I always considered cold setting a hack, I would not do it or want a frame it was done to. Too much room for imperfection, and I'd rather not have bent seat and chain stays anyway.
Agreed. I would never cold set anything outside of a pannier rack. I would never buy a frame that has been tweaked by some guy with 2X4's on his garage floor.

Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
There's no downside to giving the remove spacer / re-center the rim method a whirl though.
Unfortunately there is a downside- you are increasing the dishing, which is bad. The only solution is to use an off-centered rear rim.

But I re-iterate- there is nothing wrong with that 126mm spacing. Just use a 7 speed HG/UG hub (600-6400, 105-1055, RSX or RX100), 7 speed cassette and RSX, Sora, or Tourney brifters (or Micronew or Microshift). I should know because at this moment I have 4 bikes with 126mm spacing- and 2 of them I have had to re-convert to 126mm hubs because the previous owners (in the case of the Lemond Tourmalet- possibly the factory) stuffed a 130mm hub'ed wheel in there, making it extremely difficult to take the wheel in and out.
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Old 08-25-20, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
the previous owners (in the case of the Lemond Tourmalet- possibly the factory) stuffed a 130mm hub'ed wheel in there, making it extremely difficult to take the wheel in and out.
Sounds like it needed to be cold set.
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Old 08-25-20, 01:38 PM
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Our local framebuilder uses his Marchetti frame table, cold sets come out perfect. People think custom frames always come out of brazing perfectly, not so, and if minor corrections are needed they are cold set with proper tooling, not 2x4s. How much difference in the two approaches make is unclear but I choose to believe the custom frames will produce sweeter rides.
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Old 08-25-20, 03:38 PM
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I've cold set 5 of my frames from 126 to 130. All done on my basement floor with a 2 x 4, a ruler, string, dropout alignment tools and a derailleur hanger alignment tool. Not a single problem with any of them. I say go for it. It's only 2 mm on each side.
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Old 08-25-20, 04:11 PM
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Hey Rizaa I do know that the dropout are perfectly aligned (I set them with my Park dropout alignment tools) so if you just put a slightly wider hub in there, and do the trigonometry, the out of parallel angle should be very small (I used to be able to do that math, but I am just too lazy now a days!)
I would put that 2 mm spacer back in, and just spread the rear with your thumbs, and Bob's your uncle!

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Old 08-25-20, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gearbasher View Post
I've cold set 5 of my frames from 126 to 130. All done on my basement floor with a 2 x 4, a ruler, string, dropout alignment tools and a derailleur hanger alignment tool. Not a single problem with any of them. I say go for it. It's only 2 mm on each side.
Same! I don't think I would do this for a mint Confente Masi, but it's been fine for my riders. I don't have dropout or derailleur hanger alignment tools so I usually end up taking it into the shop to take care of those pieces.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
Ask how many rear triangle cold settings your LBS guy has done. As long as he has some experience and the right alignment tools (it sounds like he has both, but double check), I'd say invest the $30. Two to four millimeters doesn't sound like much, but having the drop outs out of parallel is suboptimal, and putting a 130mm OLD hub in a 126mm spaced triangle puts the dropouts (and the RD hanger) a little bit out of parallel. Is it a big deal? Probably not. But for $30, I'd say go for the cold setting and remove all doubt.
+1 especially with indexing getting everything nice and aligned (derailer hanger also) makes indexing work better
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Old 08-25-20, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I always considered cold setting a hack, I would not do it or want a frame it was done to. Too much room for imperfection, and I'd rather not have bent seat and chain stays anyway.
There's no downside to giving the remove spacer / re-center the rim method a whirl though.
why, it seems way less of a hack the removing a spacer and then recentering the wheel.

I have coldset 2 frames with no issues one 126 to 135 usiing the sheldon 2x4

the other 126 to 130

but as alwayts ymmv
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Old 08-25-20, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
I think if you can run the hub without having to cold set is preferable, but there's nothing wrong with cold setting the rear triangle IMO.
Thank you for that update. I did however have to remove a 2mm spacer from the non drive side for it to slide in easily.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
My guess is that you can get away without cold setting the rear triangle. I have done this a few times with no issues, however...

This usually works OK with a bike designed/built to accept a six cog freewheel, not five or less. If the bike starts with a five cog freewheel, the rear drop space will be 120mm. If that is the case, cold set away because, even though a strong person might be able to install the wheel, it will be difficult to do so.
Hi, it is a 126mm rear spacing. My concern is about whether I'd need dishing if I took 2mm spacer from the non drive but it does slide into my frame easily now.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
Ask how many rear triangle cold settings your LBS guy has done. As long as he has some experience and the right alignment tools (it sounds like he has both, but double check), I'd say invest the $30. Two to four millimeters doesn't sound like much, but having the drop outs out of parallel is suboptimal, and putting a 130mm OLD hub in a 126mm spaced triangle puts the dropouts (and the RD hanger) a little bit out of parallel. Is it a big deal? Probably not. But for $30, I'd say go for the cold setting and remove all doubt.
True that does make sense. I may just ask him about how many he's done. He seemed to know what I was talking about. I am new to the vintage bike world so trying to figure out the best and safest option for the bike.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
A 126mm rear drop out can accomodate a 7 speed HG cassette and 7 speed RSX / Sora brifters. I love the 7 speed drivetrain. The more the speeds the more trimming you have to do.
I actually ended up buying a 7 speed Shimano tri-color, Suntour sprint and just picked up the 8 speed Veloce groupset hoping to use that on the bike for its brifters.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rizaa View Post
Hi, it is a 126mm rear spacing. My concern is about whether I'd need dishing if I took 2mm spacer from the non drive but it does slide into my frame easily now.
If it slides in easily with a 2 mm spacer removed, it should slide in with a bit of effort without the spacer removed. That's an option. In theory, you should redish if you remove the spacer. I'm not sure you'd notice a difference. Your wheel will be 1 mm off-center. Personally, I'd prefer cold setting over redishing the wheel.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue View Post
If you're able to re-center the rim after removing that spacer, and there are no driveline issues with the current setup, I'd say go with it.
That was what I was thinking after being able to slide in the 8 speed campy wheel.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
If your spacing gets in the way of a Rae Dawn Chong 7 second wheel change, Rae Dawn Chong 7 second wheel change I'd cold set it to 130mm. $30 is cheap for a shop to do this, but it's a 10 minute job if you do it often and have the right tools to make sure the wheel is centered and the dropouts are parallel.
Thanks for that update. good video there. I guess due to large number of you guys recommending cold setting that its safe. I am now leaning towards it. Just want to make sure that the frame doesn't get damaged.
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Old 08-25-20, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I always considered cold setting a hack, I would not do it or want a frame it was done to. Too much room for imperfection, and I'd rather not have bent seat and chain stays anyway.
There's no downside to giving the remove spacer / re-center the rim method a whirl though.
I've ridden newer bikes up until now so that's what my main concern is to make sure the best option for the frame when it comes to semi newer groupset and hence starting this thread to get more feedback from seasoned members who are more knowledgeable than i.
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