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Italian fixed cup install: grease, thread lock, or ..?

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Italian fixed cup install: grease, thread lock, or ..?

Old 10-20-20, 01:51 PM
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Italian fixed cup install: grease, thread lock, or ..?

I don't usually remove the fixed cup during an overhaul, but I do always check if it's secure. This Sugino cup, from a '72 Torpado, came loose fairly easily with an adjustable wrench. So I removed it for cleaning. Now, how to secure it? What's your method? Just a little bit of grease? An ample supply of blue Loctite? Some combo? (Does that even make sense?) I can't remember the last time I did this for an Italian...



And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.
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Old 10-20-20, 02:16 PM
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In my experience, simply tightening it enough (ca. 40 Nxm) is sufficient to keep it in place. Locktight isn't necessary, and might even make it too hard to remove in the future. Mine stayed put between 1989 and 2017, and I actually had to take it to my bike shop to have it removed. It had not loosened at all. If you put anything on the threads, a very thin coating of thread anti-seize (like what Park Tool makes -the grey stuff) is all that is required.

(I resisted the temptation to reply in the way you have to me in the past. It would be a matter for gratitude if it were at some point reciprocated.)
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Old 10-20-20, 02:24 PM
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I would use grease or blue Loctite. Blue Loctite doesn't make anything hard to remove. I'm not sure it would help keep the cup in at all, but it won't hurt, either. I've heard of people using red Loctite, but you need to use heat to remove. Blue Loctite is intended to prevent things from coming out from vibration. Fixed cups come out because of precession, not vibration.
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Old 10-20-20, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I don't usually remove the fixed cup during an overhaul, but I do always check if it's secure. This Sugino cup, from a '72 Torpado, came loose fairly easily with an adjustable wrench. So I removed it for cleaning. Now, how to secure it? What's your method? Just a little bit of grease? An ample supply of blue Loctite? Some combo? (Does that even make sense?) I can't remember the last time I did this for an Italian...





And, yeah, it has Sugino cups and crankset and a Campy spindle.


Clean threads, cup and shell, small smear of grease, then good and tight.

As should be done every time.
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Old 10-20-20, 02:35 PM
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.
...I routinely use blue Loctite on all RH threaded fixed cups now. I have one of those Hozan fixed cup tools, so I can install with plenty of torque, but it's like belt and suspenders. Once you've had one back out in use, you start to figure it's cheap insurance.
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Old 10-20-20, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
... As should be done every time.
I am well aware of your systematic method and my embraced lack of complete thoroughness!

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
I routinely use blue Loctite on all RH threaded fixed cups now.
What about volume? Just like one would use grease on both cup and shell? Or ..?
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Old 10-20-20, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post
I am well aware of your systematic method and my embraced lack of complete thoroughness!



What about volume? Just like one would use grease on both cup and shell? Or ..?
I know, you asked.

The end result yields the best way to get it tight AND get it apart next time.

You can also use Super glue for Loctite, just don't get carried away.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
I know, you asked.

The end result yields the best way to get it tight AND get it apart next time.

You can also use Super glue for Loctite, just don't get carried away.
I've tried to get the non-drive side cup of a cartridge BB out using your methodology of levers and it hasn't worked yet...it thinks it is a fixed cup...(I was able to remove the DS)
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Old 10-20-20, 03:03 PM
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I think olive oil would be culturally appropriate.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
I've tried to get the non-drive side cup of a cartridge BB out using your methodology of levers and it hasn't worked yet...it thinks it is a fixed cup...(I was able to remove the DS)
I am staunchly non cartridge and have never needed to adapt this method to it since it saves all BB's I use it on.

If you are pushing in on the retainer with a tool and clamp, you are adding to the friction, it needs to only rotate without pushing in on the tool and retaining ring.

It was developed for the DS originally and specifically but has always worked on the NDS of cup and cone BB's as well.

If we emailed about the method in the past, I would like to see pics of what's going on. PM if need be.

Last edited by merziac; 10-20-20 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
I think olive oil would be culturally appropriate.
I am a fan of Shelley Duvall. Is she italian?
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Old 10-20-20, 03:15 PM
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Traditionally they'd would be put on with just grease, but using a real fixed cup tool -- not a wrench, and plenty of torque. I was taught to use a breaker bar/pipe with the campy fixed cup tool.

If doing it at home with more commonly available tools, I'd suggest blue loctite.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa View Post



What about volume? Just like one would use grease on both cup and shell? Or ..?
...if you thoroughly clean both threaded surfaces before you apply it, four or five drops of Loctite goes a long, long way.
As you torque down the fixed cup, it has a tendency to squeeze into any place you might have missed, because of the liquid consistency of it.

I suppose someone in the future might have trouble removing one of my installs. But I had trouble removing it too. So welcome to my world.
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Old 10-20-20, 04:18 PM
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Bloo Locktite - you'll be glad once you get 50 miles from home.
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Old 10-20-20, 04:47 PM
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Grease and Teflon tape.

Crank it on as tight as you can (within reason).
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Old 10-20-20, 06:57 PM
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The BB in my Italian frame is a cartridge job, so not sure if it's still relevant, but I just used grease and set my torque wrench to far king tight.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:04 PM
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I use grease (or Park Anti-seize). When I tried to remove the cup from my 87 Pinarello a couple of years ago (it had last been installed in around '95) I needed to rig something up to clamp the wrench against the frame and then pound it loose with a rubber mallet. Ditto the Colnago.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:07 PM
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Italian bb, always grease and Teflon tape. No matter what style.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
I am staunchly non cartridge and have never needed to adapt this method to it since it saves all BB's I use it on.

If you are pushing in on the retainer with a tool and clamp, you are adding to the friction, it needs to only rotate without pushing in on the tool and retaining ring.

It was developed for the DS originally and specifically but has always worked on the NDS of cup and cone BB's as well.

If we emailed about the method in the past, I would like to see pics of what's going on. PM if need be.
this is what an ungreased BB cup looks like!!



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Old 10-20-20, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by P!N20 View Post
... and set my torque wrench to far king tight.
... Took me a few seconds.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jiangshi View Post
Grease and Teflon tape.
Originally Posted by jiangshi View Post
Italian bb, always grease and Teflon tape.
Like the white roll you'd find at the hardware store to use on sink faucet threads? Assume you grease the shell and tape the cup. I like this idea. Seems like it would help prevent moisture, too.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:50 PM
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I thought teflon tape was to create a seal, not as a threadlock. The stuff is slippery, after all.

You can use as much blue Loctite as you want. The only part that will actually cure is that which is deprived of oxygen - it is anaerobic. The rest will remain liquid and will wipe off after you've finished assembly. Good stuff, I use it on the two cylinder diesel engine in my boat which vibrates like crazy, but things assembled with blue Loctite stay put.
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Old 10-20-20, 07:57 PM
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Never had problems just using grease and tightening hard with a 40cm/16" pipe extension.
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Old 10-20-20, 08:02 PM
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I used to use Phil grease, then hand the bike drive side down over the bench vise, grab the cup with the vise jaws, then tighten using the frame as a good sized wrench. (I love left-hand drive side threads. So much easier.) I never had a vise tightened French cup loosen (and they were on a UO-8 that did a few 100+ mile rides as my fix gear training bike in my racing days),
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Old 10-20-20, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I used to use Phil grease, then hand the bike drive side down over the bench vise, grab the cup with the vise jaws, then tighten using the frame as a good sized wrench. (I love left-hand drive side threads. So much easier.) I never had a vise tightened French cup loosen (and they were on a UO-8 that did a few 100+ mile rides as my fix gear training bike in my racing days),
That's what I do when assembling a bare frame.
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