My mid 80's Super has room for the Continental 4000s II 700 x 28 tires which we all know measure out around 30mm wide normally. Bring on the gravel!!

Road bikes can be used to tour on. Should we consider them touring bikes though?
Road bikes can be ridden on rocky rooted singletrack. Should we consider them mountain bikes though?

Or can we all just accept that gravel existed long before the currently well established category became popular, recognize that bike specialization isnt always needed but is often beneficial, and then collectively move on?

I did not write or suggest that.
I will brush that aside and almost ALL Colnago road bikes did not have eyelets, no racks of fenders anticipated.

85 years. That's a hell of a legacy.

This is my 2nd Bob Jackson. Sold the first.

Bob Jackson 853 tubing, arrowhead lugs

Well said! Jobst Brandt would agree.



I have a few bikes (don't we all ;-) ), and each has an optimal use, but I've ridden my narrower tired bikes on gravel roads, and fat ones on asphalt.

There is a rough, general concensus over what we mean by road, touring, gravel, etc., but that's driven more by marketing.

I look at that photo and just wonder... who would stand in front on Jobst (and Peter) on a narrow trail, just waiting to get bowled over?

... man, that is one big frame!...

Steve in Peoria

Since its from the front, each time I see that pic, I immediately think about how narrow those bars are. As a user of comically large frames, I cant imagine pairing the frame to comically narrow bars and then saying- let's ride some animal paths thru the Santa Cruz mountains!

Trends are fun to look back at.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sf...260720166.html

just posted..... no affiliation
Large frame but nice color and patina.
Best, Ben

I think that bike has a upsloping top tube.

Note that Jobst's shoulders are not much wider than the bars; the proportions look about right to my untrained eye.. He was quite tall and rather thin, hence the frame and bars. He is also one of those people who gave so much to the cycling community that he gets a pass on pretty much quirky or dated fit thing he chose to do.

Questioning Jobst is > peeing in the wind.

The most striking feature to me is the very long headtube. But he only has the handlebar at about the same height as the seat which is still fairly normal for smaller riders. These days bigger riders seem to be more accepting of much more bar drop.
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There's been some thread drift here, but I thought I'd point out that the news as of a couple days ago is that Woodrup Cycles and another investor did successfully purchase the Bob Jackson name, rights and framebuilding machinery/supplies. The news comes from Kevin Sayles, Woodrup's Master Builder, who's already checked out some of the framebuilding stuff, so barring any weird corporate shenanigans it seems that BoJack may live on. There's not a whole lot more detail yet, but this means there's the possibility that Woodrup may continue building Bob Jackson frames.

I posted this in a separate thread a couple days back, but there's not really any more detail there. We haven't heard much yet other than that it's a done deal.

[MENTION=290087]pcb[/MENTION]

Corporate shenanigans seems to be even more of an artform now days, hopefully this goes through despite that and the consternation discussed here earlier on.

At this point in history, any name that can live on is a stroke of luck.

Good, I keep having the thought that how could a reputable bike manufacturing name go bankrupt this last year. I am not naive either, last year was a great year for bikes and it should be another one this year, so either not delivering on promised orders or business shenanigans or bad debt, you'd think they would have been able to pull it off. Woodrup cycles + new investor sounds like a solid way forward to me, hopefully it caries on.

Bob Jackson didn't close down due to financial difficulties, at least going from what they publicly announced and comments from local folks with knowledge. The principals are senior citizens, they've been running BoJack for decades, their building/land was worth quite a lot of money, and they decided it was time to unwind the business and enjoy life. They did mention that continuing in the long term would be difficult simply because they had trouble finding young people willing to learn framebuilding, and their builders were aging out. Seemed like the right time to retire.

The story became complex when it went from "sorry, we're shutting down, bye" to "good news, we have a buyer to continue the business," to "sorry, that deal fell through" to "Woodrup/investor bought the name/rights/stuff." But all of that potential/lost/rediscovered buy-out news was unrelated to the apparent fact that Jacksons was profitable and solvent when the decision was made to shutter the business.

There may be a larger story and other ways to look at this. Is it difficult to find young people who want to get their hands dirty building frames, or is it difficult to find them willing to do that for bike-biz salaries when they could be brazing/welding industrially, or in plumbing, for more dosh? I don't know how the trades look in the UK these days, are they having trouble in general getting younger tradespeople, and is that workforce aging out?

And/or would Jacksons have had an easier time attracting younger workers if they sold their frames for more money, and could afford to pay them more? But how many fewer frames would they have sold at higher prices? Etc?

Anyhow, I was partly saddened to see the name end because I have warm/fuzzies for them, and because I had long thought about getting one built for me, but never did. But I'm also aware that British bicycle manufacturing history is full of brands that died, or were absorbed by other brands. My '71 Raleigh Pro Track frame also has Carlton decals. The Carlton decals disappeared not long after '71.

I'm glad what's left of Bob Jackson landed at Woodrup, much better there than some non-mfr corporate entity that would source cheap frames and slap on Jackson decals. And I'm looking forward to seeing what Woodrup does with the brand. Maintaining it as a lower-cost alternative to Woodrup would be cool, IMHO.

I have a quite illogical desire to see a British-made bicycle with a barber-pole seat tube in my basement.

100% agree. I have some nostalgic feelings for Jacksons (my first good frame was a Bob Jackson). I like the idea of the Bob Jackson name living on as Woodrup-built frames, kind of like the Hetchins name having lived on for a while as Jackson-built frames. Beats the hell out of the fate I postulated above (another classic old name slapped on modern non-descript mass produced and mass marketed frames).

This is not a slam on the bikes sold by such operations. Mass produced and mass marketed is not inherently bad, and they fill a viable niche, albeit not one I am interested in. But I rebel at the idea of building a Honda Civic (a very good car for its intended purpose) and calling it a Stutz Bearcat. The same idea applies here. Yes the parallel is not perfect - a Bob Jackson is not the equivalent of a Stutz and was not intended to be - but you get the idea.

At this point I'll believe it when I click on their web page and find an order form.

Illogical perhaps, but not that uncommon (I've got that same itch).

Have I just been more exposed to Mercian marketing than B.J. marketing, or is Mercian better known as the company who uses barber pole stripes?



... but I'm still very happy with my B.J. made Hetchins!

Steve in Peoria

Mercian will set you right up!

There was a bike shop here in Austin that was popular among roadies. Lots of square footage, and a seemingly endless supply of weird old parts. I started shopping there in the 80s, when I was in college, and they had, among other things, three Mercian frames hanging on the wall. The shop closed about five years ago, and I'm pretty sure two of those were still on the wall when they closed (I have to wonder if their unwillingness to mark down old stock was part of the problem). One of them had that barber-pole seat tube.

Has anyone heard anything new on this Bob Jackson situation? What is the bottom line as it stands now?

I was under the impression that everything had been liquidated months ago.

Their homepage has an enquiries tab and 2021 copyright at the bottom.

https://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/

Hopefully they get/have it sorted soon.

I love mine.