Early Campagnolo Shifters
09-30-21, 03:02 AM
#1
SAARF WAS WRONG!
Thread Starter
Early Campagnolo Shifters
I am trying to determine if I have a complete set of shifter components. Also, if I can mix certain types, and if they can use the same parts.
Lastly, ID'ing some types, and markings.
I figure these are easy for those who have been doing this for years as opposed to the few months that I have been.
I gathered up various parts in Europe before returning to the US since they were cheap and plentiful.
Lastly, ID'ing some types, and markings.
I figure these are easy for those who have been doing this for years as opposed to the few months that I have been.
I gathered up various parts in Europe before returning to the US since they were cheap and plentiful.
Last edited by le bici di jaco; 09-30-21 at 03:33 AM.
09-30-21, 03:07 AM
#2
SAARF WAS WRONG!
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What are these and are they complete?
Do I need specific rear derailleur and freewheel to use them?
Do I need specific rear derailleur and freewheel to use them?
09-30-21, 03:12 AM
#3
SAARF WAS WRONG!
Thread Starter
What type and year are these?
I want to use them for a late 60s-early 70s frame if appropriate.
I want to use them for a late 60s-early 70s frame if appropriate.
09-30-21, 03:31 AM
#4
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Can these levers be used with the same hardware (except far left lever)? What are the markings (I know the Colnago symbol, Wilier is obvious)? I want to mix and match realizing I need left/right pairs to do so. They are all Campagnolo, but are not identical in relation to the raised lettering and sunken lettering. Also, what is the far left model? It's differen from the one in the earlier post having a "spoon-shaped" profile rather than a being flat.
09-30-21, 06:44 AM
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The first set of levers look to be Synchro 2 levers, (Second, supposedly improved version.).
Campagnolo's first series of indexed shifters..
I think they they were made specifically to work best with the first version of the Chorus RD from the late 80's.
The shifters came with indented indexing rings in different colors that was interchangeable for either 6 or 7 speeds and also for different freewheel/chain combinations. The rings are what look like gears in the shifter body. They can be removed and changed out for other rings using a special tool from Campy, or just a pair of small, flat tipped screwdrivers. The "A7" stamped on the RD lever indexing ring means "Type A, 7 speeds".
The Synchro system never really worked that well for most people because the indexing system was just never that precise or consistent. I think that's why you can buy these levers for relatively cheap these days, considering they were made by Campagnolo.
You should still give them a shot anyway, in case you might be one of the few lucky ones that can make these levers work well enough on your bikes.
Campagnolo's first series of indexed shifters..
I think they they were made specifically to work best with the first version of the Chorus RD from the late 80's.
The shifters came with indented indexing rings in different colors that was interchangeable for either 6 or 7 speeds and also for different freewheel/chain combinations. The rings are what look like gears in the shifter body. They can be removed and changed out for other rings using a special tool from Campy, or just a pair of small, flat tipped screwdrivers. The "A7" stamped on the RD lever indexing ring means "Type A, 7 speeds".
The Synchro system never really worked that well for most people because the indexing system was just never that precise or consistent. I think that's why you can buy these levers for relatively cheap these days, considering they were made by Campagnolo.
You should still give them a shot anyway, in case you might be one of the few lucky ones that can make these levers work well enough on your bikes.
Last edited by Chombi1; 09-30-21 at 06:55 AM.
09-30-21, 06:53 AM
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Edit: sorry, the one on the left is 6 speed.
As they can be used in both friction and index modes, they can be used with any RD as friction shifters. In index mode you are probably limited a bit more to 7 speed era RD’s. YMMV.
Again, in friction mode they can be used with any cassette or freewheel, but note from 8 speeds onwards the lever has to travel 180 degrees to select low gear, and the more sprockets you have the more finesse required to select gears.
In index mode you’re stuck with whatever insert you have - in your case 7 speed. You can source 5 or 6 speed inserts if required. There’s 8 speed inserts too, but like above, the barrel isn’t big enough to get the right indexing.
Beautiful shifters, I regret selling mine. I should try to track down the 8 speed version with the bigger barrel.
Last edited by P!N20; 09-30-21 at 05:38 PM.
09-30-21, 07:27 AM
#8
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Wilier and Moser on the other friction shifters. Hopefully you have matched sets of those - pretty cool.
Synchro 2 shifters have a bad reputation but I’ve had good success with them. They suffer in that Campy tried to adapt to a variety of rear derailleur and freewheel spacing. The index rings are interchangeable and specific for certain setups although I’ve found not ironclad.
https://www.cadre.org/bike_stuff/Camp...moresyncro.jpg
Campagnolo Syncro II shifters ~ tears for gears
Hmmm, when I test those links they don’t seem to work, but the sites are active, so just google more synchro and tears for gears synchro and they should pop up.
Synchro 2 shifters have a bad reputation but I’ve had good success with them. They suffer in that Campy tried to adapt to a variety of rear derailleur and freewheel spacing. The index rings are interchangeable and specific for certain setups although I’ve found not ironclad.
https://www.cadre.org/bike_stuff/Camp...moresyncro.jpg
Campagnolo Syncro II shifters ~ tears for gears
Hmmm, when I test those links they don’t seem to work, but the sites are active, so just google more synchro and tears for gears synchro and they should pop up.
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
Last edited by Spaghetti Legs; 09-30-21 at 07:30 AM.
09-30-21, 08:30 AM
#9
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Is that Moser two to the right of that?
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super
09-30-21, 09:34 AM
#10
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yes, you are spot on there
time appropriate
if curious, i began a thead on this family of shift lever models here -
? for the Tulliana experts
-----
10-01-21, 11:20 PM
#11
SAARF WAS WRONG!
Thread Starter
Thank for your replies Chombi1 , Mr. 66 , P!N20 , Spaghetti Legs , jdawginsc , and juvela !
I greatly appreciate your knowledge. I am akin to a dry sponge ready to absorb all the experience I can glean from others since I enjoy riding and tinkering. Having a some "disposable" income from per diem payments I was able to buy a bunch a stuff while travelling around. Figured I could trade or sell stuff I didn't need or couldn't use. I got the levers (more not shown, some matching designs) as a package deal for 75 euros with some loose hardware. So the syncro sets should work "as is" for friction, but need a special rear derailleur for indexing function? The other levers all can use the same hardware except I need to separate left and right levers.
The "valentino" levers seem okay, no cracked wingnuts, but I would be concerned tightening them as much I do on the Gaburro to for fear of the plastic threads stripping. My thought was to replace them with brass or steel wingnuts; easy to procure and inexpensive.
I got the following derailleurs (4, except Galli is from the Olmo bike) for 250 euros; just tried to buy in bulk so I had enough parts to complete a couple bikes. I just am not familiar with what is compatible with what.
The 2 on the left are similar in design just one being older, the black/silver ones seem nearly identical to me, and the top derailleur is just weird (is this the one I can use with the syncro shifters?). All the units seem sound with only a few scratches; pulleys are in very good condition so I don't think I need to do anything except figure out what would work best depending on gears used. I alreadly have freewheels (Regina, Sun Tour, Atom, Everest) from 5-7 speeds, but not all have the same range. I don't know if they are compatible with the syncro shifters either. Also, presently negotiating on a Bandiziol (?) frame for $150 (asking for $200)with grooves in the tubing which I have never seen before and brake line goes through the tubing.
I greatly appreciate your knowledge. I am akin to a dry sponge ready to absorb all the experience I can glean from others since I enjoy riding and tinkering. Having a some "disposable" income from per diem payments I was able to buy a bunch a stuff while travelling around. Figured I could trade or sell stuff I didn't need or couldn't use. I got the levers (more not shown, some matching designs) as a package deal for 75 euros with some loose hardware. So the syncro sets should work "as is" for friction, but need a special rear derailleur for indexing function? The other levers all can use the same hardware except I need to separate left and right levers.
The "valentino" levers seem okay, no cracked wingnuts, but I would be concerned tightening them as much I do on the Gaburro to for fear of the plastic threads stripping. My thought was to replace them with brass or steel wingnuts; easy to procure and inexpensive.
I got the following derailleurs (4, except Galli is from the Olmo bike) for 250 euros; just tried to buy in bulk so I had enough parts to complete a couple bikes. I just am not familiar with what is compatible with what.
The 2 on the left are similar in design just one being older, the black/silver ones seem nearly identical to me, and the top derailleur is just weird (is this the one I can use with the syncro shifters?). All the units seem sound with only a few scratches; pulleys are in very good condition so I don't think I need to do anything except figure out what would work best depending on gears used. I alreadly have freewheels (Regina, Sun Tour, Atom, Everest) from 5-7 speeds, but not all have the same range. I don't know if they are compatible with the syncro shifters either. Also, presently negotiating on a Bandiziol (?) frame for $150 (asking for $200)with grooves in the tubing which I have never seen before and brake line goes through the tubing.
10-02-21, 07:40 AM
#12
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The top derailleur I believe is Croce D’Aune. The next one down looks like a 7 speed Chorus, possibly second generation C Record. You will need a barrel adjuster to use the Croce D’Aune with indexed Synchro but the Chorus should work fine as it looks intact. Third one down is a first gen Super Record, before they went to the black faceplate - very nice.
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N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, ‘89 Cinelli Supercorsa, ‘83 Bianchi Specialissima, ‘VO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur
10-02-21, 09:44 AM
#13
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Those appear to be Gran Sport shifters, and would be appropriate for a 60s-70s era bike. The friction adjuster wing nuts are from an earlier iteration than this catalog picture:
10-02-21, 02:28 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
I may have been confused by the various models discussed in the reference link for them. I like the "thumb wheel" style nuts (assume they're metal), should be able the tighten more without fear of damage. I assume I would not need the red cap, but retain the thrust washer to utilize that nut style.
10-03-21, 01:33 AM
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So I tried some 8 speed index shifters with a 7 speed Chorus A-B rear derailleur, like the second one from the top in your picture up there, and it was all over the place. But it should have worked, as the cassette spacing of 7 speed and 8 speed was 5mm.
I'd say your shifters should work in index mode with any 7 speed or earlier RD, as long as you have the correct insert for the number of sprockets. But you might have problems if you try to run an 8 speed RD - but I haven't tried that configuration so YMMV.
10-03-21, 07:01 PM
#16
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Yes, no, maybe.
So I tried some 8 speed index shifters with a 7 speed Chorus A-B rear derailleur, like the second one from the top in your picture up there, and it was all over the place. But it should have worked, as the cassette spacing of 7 speed and 8 speed was 5mm.
I'd say your shifters should work in index mode with any 7 speed or earlier RD, as long as you have the correct insert for the number of sprockets. But you might have problems if you try to run an 8 speed RD - but I haven't tried that configuration so YMMV.
So I tried some 8 speed index shifters with a 7 speed Chorus A-B rear derailleur, like the second one from the top in your picture up there, and it was all over the place. But it should have worked, as the cassette spacing of 7 speed and 8 speed was 5mm.
I'd say your shifters should work in index mode with any 7 speed or earlier RD, as long as you have the correct insert for the number of sprockets. But you might have problems if you try to run an 8 speed RD - but I haven't tried that configuration so YMMV.
10-03-21, 08:06 PM
#17
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Depends if your name starts with Fausto and ends with Coppi.
I think there's a couple of things going on here. For high gear the cable is at its slackest, so by having the 'last' notch further away the gear position is more dependent on your H limit screw rather than the lever position. Also, as you shift down the gears the cable is getting tighter and stretches, so it's not a completely linear progression. It's more evident in the higher gears as the tension gets applied to the slack cable.
It's all about the parallelogram. Disraeli Gears can explain it way better than I can: https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...erailleur.html
I noticed that the toothed insert on each shifter (one w/6 notches the other with 7) have teeth evenly spaced except one at the end which is offset at a greater distance from the others. I assumed (wrongly I guess) that the spacing would need to be even for proper indexing.
10-04-21, 04:39 AM
#18
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Thank you P!N20 !
My query on the freewheel range was in regards to how well the indexing worked, or whether it matters. I am definitely not Mr. Coppi although I do have Italian blood. I would like to use the 12-24T (52 or 53/42T front) range due to the hilly environment I live in. The 12-18T would have me riding on the 15-18T cogs most of the time anyways so not the best option. Figure that 24T would come in handy; 2nd option is the 13-21T, running 53/39T front.
My query on the freewheel range was in regards to how well the indexing worked, or whether it matters. I am definitely not Mr. Coppi although I do have Italian blood. I would like to use the 12-24T (52 or 53/42T front) range due to the hilly environment I live in. The 12-18T would have me riding on the 15-18T cogs most of the time anyways so not the best option. Figure that 24T would come in handy; 2nd option is the 13-21T, running 53/39T front.
10-28-21, 06:32 PM
#19
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Thread Starter
I have now discovered that there is a difference (other than outward looks) to the 2 types of Camp. shifter levers. The hardware does not match exactly and the levers are machined at different depths where the washers seat so I need the get together specific sets of hardware in order to use these levers. It would appear that I have enough pieces to cobble together a couple of functioning lever sets, but I have a more levers than hardware at this moment so I need to find some spare parts to complete more sets for usage. From what I have gathered there is a bit of overlap in years of manufacture between the older and newer style, but I have no idea what the range of years are. I have tried using velobase (discovered recently), but the years are very vague in many cases so I am still in the dark as to what might be appropriate for certain year builds.
10-28-21, 11:21 PM
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Campagnolo indexing can be a bewildering mess.
they really did not get it together until Ergo 8 in my view and I am a Campagnolo fan.
there were downtube 8 speed index and they work well enough.
the 6 and 7? Be a man of the peloton and friction shift.
the classic and pre true slant parallelogram mechanisms really needed a slight overshift to work, and that is the problem.
with 6 and 7 cog index, Campagnolo was avoiding the inevitable and trying not to kill off Regina, Everest.
they gave up performance for the accommodation. Noble and almost disastrous.
they really did not get it together until Ergo 8 in my view and I am a Campagnolo fan.
there were downtube 8 speed index and they work well enough.
the 6 and 7? Be a man of the peloton and friction shift.
the classic and pre true slant parallelogram mechanisms really needed a slight overshift to work, and that is the problem.
with 6 and 7 cog index, Campagnolo was avoiding the inevitable and trying not to kill off Regina, Everest.
they gave up performance for the accommodation. Noble and almost disastrous.
10-29-21, 07:28 AM
#21
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le bici di jaco Jake (aka when you are in New Hampshire),
I missed this post earlier due to travel and other obligations the end of September and early October.
But when and where are you located in New Hampshire when you are in the USA? I'm about 30 minutes northwest of Concord (May-October).
Welcome to C&V. bi
I missed this post earlier due to travel and other obligations the end of September and early October.
But when and where are you located in New Hampshire when you are in the USA? I'm about 30 minutes northwest of Concord (May-October).
Welcome to C&V. bi
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Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
10-30-21, 12:09 PM
#22
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le bici di jaco Jake (aka when you are in New Hampshire),
I missed this post earlier due to travel and other obligations the end of September and early October.
But when and where are you located in New Hampshire when you are in the USA? I'm about 30 minutes northwest of Concord (May-October).
Welcome to C&V. bi
I missed this post earlier due to travel and other obligations the end of September and early October.
But when and where are you located in New Hampshire when you are in the USA? I'm about 30 minutes northwest of Concord (May-October).
Welcome to C&V. bi
Hope you are well. I am living in Lyndeborough NH near Pack Monadnock Mt. about 1.5hrs south of you. I used to work in Manchester. Temporary until I move into parents old home in MA near Mount Wachusett. I looked at your webpage and saw that you recently retired; Congratulations! I am in transition; retiring from one area of work and entering another; albeit with less time and demand upon myself. Thus, I should not be travelling abroad except in leisure.
Regards,
Jake
10-30-21, 08:35 PM
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Campagnolo indexing can be a bewildering mess.
they really did not get it together until Ergo 8 in my view and I am a Campagnolo fan.
there were downtube 8 speed index and they work well enough.
the 6 and 7? Be a man of the peloton and friction shift.
the classic and pre true slant parallelogram mechanisms really needed a slight overshift to work, and that is the problem.
with 6 and 7 cog index, Campagnolo was avoiding the inevitable and trying not to kill off Regina, Everest.
they gave up performance for the accommodation. Noble and almost disastrous.
they really did not get it together until Ergo 8 in my view and I am a Campagnolo fan.
there were downtube 8 speed index and they work well enough.
the 6 and 7? Be a man of the peloton and friction shift.
the classic and pre true slant parallelogram mechanisms really needed a slight overshift to work, and that is the problem.
with 6 and 7 cog index, Campagnolo was avoiding the inevitable and trying not to kill off Regina, Everest.
they gave up performance for the accommodation. Noble and almost disastrous.
Strangely, the Sgnchro II system on my Pinarello Montello is even worse. Even after experimenting with different chains freewheeks and indexing rings, at best, only about 75% of my shifts happen cleanly or happen at all......
I've been planning on just taking off the Synchro II shifters from that bike and install my set of Campy "Doppler" retrofriction type shifters, which should get rid of my shifting problems on that bike, once and for all.
Last edited by Chombi1; 10-30-21 at 08:41 PM.
10-30-21, 08:51 PM
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Yes, what's weird is, the only way I can make the Synchro I shifters work on my Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL to actually add in a slight overshift motion when I shift gears......which kinda kills the whole point of having indexed shifting, which should be just moving the shift levers in one motion and the derailleur should shift exactly to the gear you want with no slop or adjusting....kinda like shift and forget.....
Strangely, the Sgnchro II system on my Pinarello Montello is even worse. Even after experimenting with different chains freewheeks and indexing rings, at best, only about 75% of my shifts happen cleanly or happen at all......
I've been planning on just taking off the Synchro II shifters from that bike and install my set of Campy "Doppler" retrofriction type shifters, which should get rid of my shifting problems on that bike, once and for all.
Strangely, the Sgnchro II system on my Pinarello Montello is even worse. Even after experimenting with different chains freewheeks and indexing rings, at best, only about 75% of my shifts happen cleanly or happen at all......
I've been planning on just taking off the Synchro II shifters from that bike and install my set of Campy "Doppler" retrofriction type shifters, which should get rid of my shifting problems on that bike, once and for all.
10-31-21, 04:12 AM
#25
SAARF WAS WRONG!
Thread Starter
Chombi1 , repechage Thank you for my continued enlightenment regarding this shifting system. If I use Shimano RD-7400, 7401, or 7402 (I have decent units of all) "slant" derailleurs, would they help in this matter? I was trying to keep all Italian parts except the freewheel on the drivetrain, but it would be nice for the indexing to actually function. I have a Regina freewheel, but I feel after reading comments that a period correct Sun Tour cluster would be best. I do have an Athena derailleur; don't know if that is considered a slant derailleur, but it needs parts (may be able to shift some parts from another unit). I also noticed that the spacing between cogs on the Sun Tours are not exactly the same; it seems a little bit tighter between the larger cogs. Is that normal; is this more common on a freewheel designed for indexing systems or just normal regardless if indexed or friction? I would like to have one bike with early indexing if just to use some of the parts I have (limited as they may be).
Last edited by le bici di jaco; 11-01-21 at 03:16 AM.