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Cannibalization

Old 04-08-22, 11:55 AM
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swampyankee2 
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Cannibalization

Relatively new to the C&V scene, I'm looking for replacement and upgrade parts for my 60's and early 70's English 10 speeds and buying a whole bike seems to be as cheap if not cheaper than sourcing the individual components. Plus, there are always the bits and bobs that come in handy for projects down the line.
I'm perusing the local ads and find a number of bikes that seem to be good candidates. My first attempt was buying a well-stored mid-70's Grand Prix with Brooks saddle in supple condition and a period Pletscher rack. But it just needs a new FD which I have, and it's too nice to break up so I'll pass it along.
What I see mostly is Motobecanes, Univegas, Fujis, import Schwinns and some Puchs. All pretty cheap and have most of the parts I'd be looking for. But what bikes would yield the most parts that would fit my '60's Robin Hood Lenton Sports and '72 Dawes Galaxy? Seat posts seem to vary wildly. I know most Derailleur sets, brakes and 27" wheel sets (looking for a serviceable alloy set) should be interchangeable, but what about stems, cranksets (both cottered and cotterless for conversion)? French brands seem to have their own thread sizes that won't swap in, but what about the rest? Any brands or eras to avoid? Or should I go armed with measurements from my own bikes?

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Old 04-08-22, 12:11 PM
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You know how it is with us cannibals.
The older stuff requires a more particular palate.
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Old 04-08-22, 12:51 PM
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Can't help you with the Lenton, but a well stocked Fuji or Raleigh or something. Honestly, the Grand Prix was probably a good model to cannibalize, then resell the frame.
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Old 04-08-22, 01:30 PM
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you look to cannibalize, but realize you found a nice overall bike, then cannibal = N+1
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Old 04-08-22, 02:33 PM
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I wouldn't buy a bike just to K-ball the parts, The best place to get parts might be the local dump if there is a metal pile. For a couple of years I could find all sorts of bike parts in the local dumps. Right now I 'm getting ready to give some of the stuff away. If you want some 27" alloy rims, pm me.
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Old 04-08-22, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
you look to cannibalize, but realize you found a nice overall bike, then cannibal = N+1
To prevent this, do what I did in early 2021 and buy a complete bike for parts.... in the wrong frame size.
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Old 04-08-22, 03:54 PM
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I like the For Trade thread.
Lots of very specific requests get met there, for a worthy swap.
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Old 04-08-22, 04:18 PM
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If you've got the space and the spare cash, go on and buy those cheap bikes, whatever their provenance. Some day you'll find a lovely French frame in your size, and you'll find that the $20 Peugeot in the barn is worth its weight in gold.
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Old 04-08-22, 04:19 PM
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Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.

Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.

I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.

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Old 04-08-22, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
you look to cannibalize, but realize you found a nice overall bike, then cannibal = N+1
Word
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Old 04-08-22, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
you look to cannibalize, but realize you found a nice overall bike, then cannibal = N+1
....and the cannibal eats your wallet.

"...drives me crazy...." -FYC
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Old 04-08-22, 05:11 PM
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Old 04-08-22, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ironwood View Post
I wouldn't buy a bike just to K-ball the parts, The best place to get parts might be the local dump if there is a metal pile. For a couple of years I could find all sorts of bike parts in the local dumps. Right now I 'm getting ready to give some of the stuff away. If you want some 27" alloy rims, pm me.
I'd gladly dump-pick but thr problem is there are no dumps around here. I wouldn't even know where to look anymore.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
To prevent this, do what I did in early 2021 and buy a complete bike for parts.... in the wrong frame size.
...which is what I did with the Grand Prix. Way too big for me. But it might fit my son. The best scenario is to find a mixte.
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Old 04-08-22, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.

Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.

I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
I figured an English-built Raleigh will be as close to the Robin Hood Lenton Sports as I can get. I will check rear wheel frame spacing. Who knows, my only option may be to re-lace the original hub. I designed a special tool to loosen the freewheel from the hub. We'll see how that works this weekend.
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Old 04-09-22, 06:16 AM
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Cannibalizing I'm OK with. It's the thievery that bothers me.

Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
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Old 04-09-22, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC View Post
Cannibalizing I'm OK with. It's the thievery that bothers me.

Like most criminal acts, the loser starts with petty offenses. A QR spring rolls off into the 4th dimension; lost. A replacement spring is innocently "borrowed" from a happy complete QR. Pretty soon a headset locking nut is robbed, and after that it's familiar path to hell.
Not much worse than going to install a headset for a customer Friday afternoon and the crown race isn’t in the box!
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Old 04-09-22, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
Don't count on stem or seat post fitting. It really depends on the era of the bike, and more. BB may or may not be correct. Raleigh for example had their own standard, which was different than the british standard. And then you have rear wheel spacing. Those changed significantly over the years, from 120mm to 126mm to 130mm to 135mm. Some of the british bikes used smaller diameter front axles too.

Still I continue to find all the parts I need in the form of complete bikes. But often, it just isn't ONE bike. Picked up two today, one made in USA, one made in Japan. Different stem ODs, different seat post ODs, different rear wheel spacing, different headset specs, different wheel OD, on and on.

I can't imagine a 1970s cottered crank Raleigh Gran Prix frame having ANY value. Generally, I target 1980s made in Japan bikes, that tended to use standardized stuff. One I picked up today is a good example. 1985 made in Japan Nishiki, almost all Shimano 600 parts. Frame alone should more than cover cost, but it was a high end model back in the day.
For Raleighs of these vintages, R followed its own standards. A lot had 26 tpi BB, axle, and fork steerer threads. I think I read way back when that the Super Course was changed to more generic threadings around 1973, perhaps the GP as well? It’s worth while to have a thread pitch measuring gauge, pretty cheap via Amazon, from Asian sources. Mitutoyo versus Asian: around 3 times the price for Mitutoyo!

Despite the proprietary threadings, BB cups will often pass inspection if the races are not rusty, and the spacing between the bearings is a one of several standard values. This means you can often swap out the cottered spindle +chainset for a square-taper spindle with cotterless chainset. It’s not elementary to choose a workable spindle, but it’s an opportunity to adapt and overcome. I’d rather see a GP with a Stronglight or TA near-period chainset adaptation, than a staged alloy crank from the lower early ranks of the period Asian bikes. My brother had one, it was a real good ride, but … it becomes “refurbishing an old bike as a rider” rather than respecting what was done in manufacturing a classic.

I was recently scolded on BF, however, for taking the TA path with my 1952 Rudge. Opinions vary widely. But I always think “if I cannot replace a bad part with the original, what can I do that is a period upgrade, or, what would I have done BITD if I had owned this machine and ridden it extensively?

For me, replacing with a decent used cotterless chainset like a Stronglight or TA would have been a no-brainer. Today, I realize there is a lot to think about: chainline, Q-factor, chainring pitch, chainring war page, tooth condition, chain matching, clearances to the chainstay, lateral balance, and making sure I have the correct extractor (the price of becoming free of fine-tuning cotter pins). But once you have found the spindle which matches the crank to the bike, you’re set for several more decades.
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Old 04-09-22, 08:36 AM
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I have a theory that everything has “a price”.

Let’s say you find a mint De Rosa, your size, and it’s $1,000. You’ve always wanted one but can’t stomach paying the $1k. Later you find a scabby version of the same bike for $150. Yay! What a score! Upon closer inspection the forks are bent, there’s a dent in the wrong place on the seat tube, it’s sporting a Huffy saddle, the brakes are mismatched low-end Dia-Compes, the wheels are 27” (you wanted 700c) and the paint is awful. You’ll spend a fortune righting the wrongs and equal or exceed the $1,000 version.

My point, if I have one, stuff costs money. Horse trading to get the correct bits is fun if you have the time but it takes patience and knowledge. Personally, I would rather rely upon knowledgeable people like the fine folks here and get the correct stuff the first time. The thread about buying a bike for a seat post isn’t my thing since after they get their seatpost I might chime in and ask about some of the other bits on the frame I could use.

I’ll step off the soapbox…
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Old 04-09-22, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by swampyankee2 View Post
Relatively new to the C&V scene,..................... Or should I go armed with measurements from my own bikes?
yes, measure and document what you have to determine what you need
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Old 04-10-22, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by swampyankee2 View Post
I'd gladly dump-pick but thr problem is there are no dumps around here. I wouldn't even know where to look anymore.
Most New England towns have dumps, now called something like Recycling and Transfer Stations, The metal piles in the dumps were a great source of bikes and parts. I used to find bikes that were bought with the intention of being ridden, but ended up in storage and then left at the dump. I collected well over a hundred, good quality frames, most of which I donated to Bikes not Bombs, or traded or gave to friends. A few I kept and rode.

Check ot the thread on this forum titled "savd from the Dump"
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