Barcons for the win.
#26
I raced with a VX short cage. The Campy boys in the pack in the pack laughed (sometimes literally), and my Superbe-equipped teammates took gentle pity on my "plight". But that thing shifted reliably every time it needed to, and was only a trivial weight difference from the far more unaffordable componentry. Great derailleur - which is what you can say about nearly every rear one made by Maeda (although the plastic cage on the Alpha 2000 on my commuting bike is fixin' to fail soon.)
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Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
Richard C. Moeur, PE - Phoenix AZ, USA
https://www.richardcmoeur.com/bikestuf.html
#27
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
I raced with a VX short cage. The Campy boys in the pack in the pack laughed (sometimes literally), and my Superbe-equipped teammates took gentle pity on my "plight". But that thing shifted reliably every time it needed to, and was only a trivial weight difference from the far more unaffordable componentry. Great derailleur - which is what you can say about nearly every rear one made by Maeda (although the plastic cage on the Alpha 2000 on my commuting bike is fixin' to fail soon.)
#28
Senior Member


Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,670
Likes: 1,975
From: Michigan USA
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes.
52telecaster You must have won all of the good deal bikes this summer in your area!
#29
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
52telecaster You must have won all of the good deal bikes this summer in your area!
#30
Senior Member




Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3,741
From: Chicago
Bikes: '69 Raleigh Sports '72 Cinelli Super Corsa '78 Motobecane Le Champion '84 Schwinn High Sierra '85 Trek 830 '88 Merckx Team ADR Corsa Extra
#31
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
#33
Senior Member




Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 3,741
From: Chicago
Bikes: '69 Raleigh Sports '72 Cinelli Super Corsa '78 Motobecane Le Champion '84 Schwinn High Sierra '85 Trek 830 '88 Merckx Team ADR Corsa Extra
#34
Senior Member♣️

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,075
Likes: 3,004
I raced with a VX short cage. The Campy boys in the pack in the pack laughed (sometimes literally), and my Superbe-equipped teammates took gentle pity on my "plight". But that thing shifted reliably every time it needed to, and was only a trivial weight difference from the far more unaffordable componentry. Great derailleur - which is what you can say about nearly every rear one made by Maeda (although the plastic cage on the Alpha 2000 on my commuting bike is fixin' to fail soon.)
#35
Senior Member


Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 14,159
Likes: 5,284
From: Portland, OR
Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder
I raced with a VX short cage. The Campy boys in the pack in the pack laughed (sometimes literally), and my Superbe-equipped teammates took gentle pity on my "plight". But that thing shifted reliably every time it needed to, and was only a trivial weight difference from the far more unaffordable componentry. Great derailleur - which is what you can say about nearly every rear one made by Maeda (although the plastic cage on the Alpha 2000 on my commuting bike is fixin' to fail soon.)
#36
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
#37
Extraordinary Magnitude


Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 14,081
Likes: 2,135
From: Waukesha WI
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
I've thought about that (I had an 84 Trek 420 made of Tange Mangaloy)
None of the makers of manganese alloy tubing really tried to position themselves in the same ball park as 531. As I understand Mangaloy and Ishiwata Mangy and Miyata's Mangalight were all classified as carbon/manganese alloys rather than manganese/molybdenum alloys. As such- they're "better" than hi-ten, but "beneath" CrMo.
In Trek terms (*VERY* generally from 70s/early 80s)
200/300- Hi-Ten
400- CMn w/ Hi-Ten stays and fork
500-CrMo
600- 531 frame with CrMo or CMn stays and fork
700- 531 frame with 531 stays and fork
900- Columbus SL/SP
(yes, the 200/300/400 designation kind of went through changes- and the 600 series was CMn early, then CrMo later until 400 series bikes were built like that in 86... but we're talking generalizations here and the rough idea of the weight/prestige of the tubing) (and yes, "better" is in quotes for a reason)
None of the makers of manganese alloy tubing really tried to position themselves in the same ball park as 531. As I understand Mangaloy and Ishiwata Mangy and Miyata's Mangalight were all classified as carbon/manganese alloys rather than manganese/molybdenum alloys. As such- they're "better" than hi-ten, but "beneath" CrMo.
In Trek terms (*VERY* generally from 70s/early 80s)
200/300- Hi-Ten
400- CMn w/ Hi-Ten stays and fork
500-CrMo
600- 531 frame with CrMo or CMn stays and fork
700- 531 frame with 531 stays and fork
900- Columbus SL/SP
(yes, the 200/300/400 designation kind of went through changes- and the 600 series was CMn early, then CrMo later until 400 series bikes were built like that in 86... but we're talking generalizations here and the rough idea of the weight/prestige of the tubing) (and yes, "better" is in quotes for a reason)
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
#38
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
I've thought about that (I had an 84 Trek 420 made of Tange Mangaloy)
None of the makers of manganese alloy tubing really tried to position themselves in the same ball park as 531. As I understand Mangaloy and Ishiwata Mangy and Miyata's Mangalight were all classified as carbon/manganese alloys rather than manganese/molybdenum alloys. As such- they're "better" than hi-ten, but "beneath" CrMo.
In Trek terms (*VERY* generally from 70s/early 80s)
200/300- Hi-Ten
400- CMn w/ Hi-Ten stays and fork
500-CrMo
600- 531 frame with CrMo or CMn stays and fork
700- 531 frame with 531 stays and fork
900- Columbus SL/SP
(yes, the 200/300/400 designation kind of went through changes- and the 600 series was CMn early, then CrMo later until 400 series bikes were built like that in 86... but we're talking generalizations here and the rough idea of the weight/prestige of the tubing) (and yes, "better" is in quotes for a reason)

None of the makers of manganese alloy tubing really tried to position themselves in the same ball park as 531. As I understand Mangaloy and Ishiwata Mangy and Miyata's Mangalight were all classified as carbon/manganese alloys rather than manganese/molybdenum alloys. As such- they're "better" than hi-ten, but "beneath" CrMo.
In Trek terms (*VERY* generally from 70s/early 80s)
200/300- Hi-Ten
400- CMn w/ Hi-Ten stays and fork
500-CrMo
600- 531 frame with CrMo or CMn stays and fork
700- 531 frame with 531 stays and fork
900- Columbus SL/SP
(yes, the 200/300/400 designation kind of went through changes- and the 600 series was CMn early, then CrMo later until 400 series bikes were built like that in 86... but we're talking generalizations here and the rough idea of the weight/prestige of the tubing) (and yes, "better" is in quotes for a reason)

#39
Unholy roller
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 6
Likes: 3
From: Pittsburgh pa.
Bikes: Gios Professional, Nishiki Cresta GT, Carlton Raleigh Gran Course
Just the other day I went to buy a 20 dollar tange champion Japanese schwinn super sport for the suntour barcons.. going to use most of the components for a touring bike I'm building for my girlfriend. The guy was so happy I knew a few things about his old bike that he ended up giving me a trek (my gfs size!) 520 frame and a NOS suntour cyclone derailer. Great day. So yes barcons for the win.
#40
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
Just the other day I went to buy a 20 dollar tange champion Japanese schwinn super sport for the suntour barcons.. going to use most of the components for a touring bike I'm building for my girlfriend. The guy was so happy I knew a few things about his old bike that he ended up giving me a trek (my gfs size!) 520 frame and a NOS suntour cyclone derailer. Great day. So yes barcons for the win.
#42
Senior Member


Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,670
Likes: 1,975
From: Michigan USA
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes.
The higher end 700 helicomatics were found on some Treks and have some differences as pointed out by JohnDThompson in this post,
Maillard Helicomatic hub question
The labyrinth seals, bigger ball bearings, and better cones make them much better.
The 6 speed helicomatic freewheels I have work pretty well with Shimano indexed shifters as well.
#44
Senior Member


Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 1,239
From: Menomonee Falls, WI
Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670
#45
Thread Starter
ambulatory senior

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,451
Likes: 4,515
From: Peoria Il
Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.
#46
Senior Member


Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,565
Likes: 2,739
From: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma
Long have I been a fan of Barcon shifters. The Suntour Barcon...

in my mind is much superior to the Campagnolo version...

But the absolute best Barcon that I have ever used are fitted to my Jamaican Bianchi. Indexed and offers a perfect shift, without hunting for that sweet spot, every time...

in my mind is much superior to the Campagnolo version...

But the absolute best Barcon that I have ever used are fitted to my Jamaican Bianchi. Indexed and offers a perfect shift, without hunting for that sweet spot, every time...
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"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".





