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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 22680750)
that brand was Kinesis, who made a lot of ALU alloy forks that appeared on several brands. I was never a fan...
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Originally Posted by Soody
(Post 22680709)
That would be amazing. I'd give you some money for it.
I'm gonna try to find one locally first to save you the trouble posting though. The steerer is 237 mm. Slightly longer would be nice to run a few spacers in the headset stack and get higher bars. Checked the fork I was thinking of . It is only? 220 mm . Apologies for getting your hopes up . |
Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
(Post 22680782)
Yeeeeikes Thats a long steerer .
Checked the fork I was thinking of . It is only? 220 mm . Apologies for getting your hopes up . |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 22680746)
First example i have seen with the "pintail" lugs and CIOCC piercings in the lower headlug and BB shell, so I'm a believer now that the Pelizzoli shop made THIS one, or at least the Bonati shop did using old stock lugs and shell.
But I dispute whether Billato was the shop that built the later Concordes: might have happened but I think more likely this gets repeated cause someone once confused one "B" shop (Bonati) with another (Billato). It was Bonati that bought the CIOCC brandname as well as "John" brands from Pelizzoli and also made the Conti brand. I think they built some Battaglin as well as some Guerciotti frames, too. |
I saw that pop up on trademe and quickly disappear. I owuld have jumped on it but Auckland is 4 hours away so not worth the drive! Looks nice though, big frames don't come up very often. Shame about the fork though.
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1983
(Post 22680890)
I saw that pop up on trademe and quickly disappear. I owuld have jumped on it but Auckland is 4 hours away so not worth the drive! Looks nice though, big frames don't come up very often. Shame about the fork though.
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Janky touchups in progress.
Not pretty but should protect the frame for a few years. If i find a good replacement fork that's not chromed i'll get them both powdercoated. I'm not doing the dropouts yet. Not entirely sure how to handle those. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...414245d8e2.jpg |
rust converter dried to black primer
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7efaafc449.jpg Tamiya rattlecan https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fee7f0aea.jpg |
I think your approach with touch-up on these areas is a sound one, so do the same on the dropouts, but since the contact "faces" were once chrome plated (a very popular treatment that was misguided, IMHO) paint won't adhere well to chrome.
And the knurled surfaces of QR or track nuts will keep chewing up any paint you apply. so just mask off the DO faces and remove rust as best you can, paint all around them like you're doing. It may look janky but will do some good. An alternative to masking tape: try coating with rubber cement and let that dry, makes a sort of masking fliud. Peels off when the spray paint is dry. Spray the insides of all tubes with a reliable rust preventative, here in the US there's the popular Frame Saver brand (most $$$) Boeshield (also $$), LPS #4 ($$) and the lowest cost plain BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil) you have to pour in cause that isn't sold in a rattlecan. You could try posting a WTB for a good quality steel fork with the steerer length you need, not gonna be quick or easy to get one to NZ for a reasonable cost, but.... ya have to start somewhere. |
If you're in Auckland maybe try Steve at Forza bikes, he may have a fork.
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 22683502)
I think your approach with touch-up on these areas is a sound one, so do the same on the dropouts, but since the contact "faces" were once chrome plated (a very popular treatment that was misguided, IMHO) paint won't adhere well to chrome.
And the knurled surfaces of QR or track nuts will keep chewing up any paint you apply. so just mask off the DO faces and remove rust as best you can, paint all around them like you're doing. It may look janky but will do some good. An alternative to masking tape: try coating with rubber cement and let that dry, makes a sort of masking fliud. Peels off when the spray paint is dry. Spray the insides of all tubes with a reliable rust preventative, here in the US there's the popular Frame Saver brand (most $$$) Boeshield (also $$), LPS #4 ($$) and the lowest cost plain BLO (Boiled Linseed Oil) you have to pour in cause that isn't sold in a rattlecan. You could try posting a WTB for a good quality steel fork with the steerer length you need, not gonna be quick or easy to get one to NZ for a reasonable cost, but.... ya have to start somewhere. I'm fine just using the old fork for now. The whole bike cost me $50 ($30 USD) and I want to see if it fits me before i spend any more on it. That way I can give someone else a good deal on it if it doesn't. |
Originally Posted by Seanaus
(Post 22683740)
If you're in Auckland maybe try Steve at Forza bikes, he may have a fork.
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Whatever a fork may end up costing, to get that frame for $30 (US) is something I would tell the grandkids about!
Lucky for all of us that I don't have any grandkids to torment with such stories...but that's one hella great deal! |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 22684051)
Whatever a fork may end up costing, to get that frame for $30 (US) is something I would tell the grandkids about!
Lucky for all of us that I don't have any grandkids to torment with such stories...but that's one hella great deal! https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...515f71ef80.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...09de276d5d.jpg |
I should have masked bigger regular shaped areas, would look cleaner.
next time. |
Originally Posted by Soody
(Post 22680712)
What are these little pegs in the tubes?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...83b3fd0f23.jpg Hole drilled through the seat stay and seat tube, small nail tapped through before brazing. |
pinning the tubes/lugs was something Pelizzoli was known to have done when he (and/or assistants) were building CIOCC frames.
I'm not 100% sure but I think that the Bonati factory did not pin: their operation was far more automated and volume/output was much higher, still a fair number of build operations were done by hand, but they had a lot more machinery and jigs. If you run across the video with the (in)famous pop-classical soundtrack (shudder!) this vid showed their factory hard at work making Ciocc, Conti and John frames from automated tube cutting to paint and fully built bicycles packed into vans for delivery...but I'd reco you turn the sound "OFF"! ;) |
Turns out the seatpost was 27.0
Progress: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...848e7dd9a8.jpg pretend it has a chrome fork |
parts bin mishmash drivetrain
12-32 Sram 7 speed (actually lighter than the old HG50) 870 Sram chain 52-40 Arabesque rings, tricolor bolts, 6500 arms. Short cage 9 speed Ultegra rd with the b-screw flipped and bent a little. Campy fd. 105 downtube shifters 30mm grand boy tire just fits in the back. Tight gaps. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11fccf002d.jpg |
Just jumping in with one more piece of evidence of the Ciocc/Concorde connection. A customer ordered a Ciocc frameset from the shop where I worked back then. The distributor took the order, but some time later got in touch to tell me that per a recent change, Ciocc framesets were no longer available under that name but would be designated Concorde framesets henceforth. The customer still wanted it, so we waited for his Concorde frame to show up. Took something like six months, as I recall.
And a thought about the aluminum fork. Looking for something more like the original fork is understandable, but you might find that you enjoy the ride with the Kinesis fork in the meantime, if you keep an open mind about it. I've always found that, for a given wheelbase (e.g., the Italian criterium geometry bikes like that Concorde are pretty close to track bike geometry and are always going to give a hard ride), the supposed differences between carbon, aluminum, and steel forks in "comfort" are well within confirmation bias territory. |
touch-up on that DO looks "janky but right"!
One more trivia point: the fact of this frame being so tall, plus the 27.0 seatpost, points to it probably being Columbus SP tubing, or a mixed set with SP seat tube at least. Very slight chance it's SPX tubing but I think it's a couple years too young for that, you could check with a good light in the butts of the main tubes next time you have the BB opened up and can look carefully (if you hadn't already). SPX (as does SLX) has helical ridges in the butts of those tubes, similar to what all SL (and above) steerers in Columbus forks will have. |
Originally Posted by Soody
(Post 22683750)
I'll ride it out to see him when I get it running again
Have fun :) |
Originally Posted by Trakhak
(Post 22687516)
Just jumping in with one more piece of evidence of the Ciocc/Concorde connection. A customer ordered a Ciocc frameset from the shop where I worked back then. The distributor took the order, but some time later got in touch to tell me that per a recent change, Ciocc framesets were no longer available under that name but would be designated Concorde framesets henceforth. The customer still wanted it, so we waited for his Concorde frame to show up. Took something like six months, as I recall.
And a thought about the aluminum fork. Looking for something more like the original fork is understandable, but you might find that you enjoy the ride with the Kinesis fork in the meantime, if you keep an open mind about it. I've always found that, for a given wheelbase (e.g., the Italian criterium geometry bikes like that Concorde are pretty close to track bike geometry and are always going to give a hard ride), the supposed differences between carbon, aluminum, and steel forks in "comfort" are well within confirmation bias territory. Love the history too. |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 22684537)
pinning the tubes/lugs was something Pelizzoli was known to have done when he (and/or assistants) were building CIOCC frames.
I'm not 100% sure but I think that the Bonati factory did not pin: their operation was far more automated and volume/output was much higher, still a fair number of build operations were done by hand, but they had a lot more machinery and jigs. If you run across the video with the (in)famous pop-classical soundtrack (shudder!) this vid showed their factory hard at work making Ciocc, Conti and John frames from automated tube cutting to paint and fully built bicycles packed into vans for delivery...but I'd reco you turn the sound "OFF"! ;) https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e455577289.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d4f7203a2.jpg |
Originally Posted by Seanaus
(Post 22688000)
I didn't find the music offensive.. :innocent: Here's an example of pinned joints in a Concorde Aquila frame from that very factory.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e455577289.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d4f7203a2.jpg ;) And thanks for this piece of info! |
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