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1975 Raleigh Competition Project

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1975 Raleigh Competition Project

Old 11-07-22, 09:34 AM
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1975 Raleigh Competition Project

I picked up this '75 Competition for a great price in early autumn. I was excited because I've always wanted either an International or Competition of this era, with their more relaxed geometry, not unlike my '51 Wasp but one size up. Dad wanted a Raleigh Competition when he was in high school - but settled for a Gitane due to cost, I think the Gitane equivalent to the Peugeot U08. The Competition has seen use and is not a cream puff, with nicks and scratches in the paint, some rust spots on the top tube, and the usual 531 transfer disappearances. The Normandy Luxe hubs and the bottom bracket were dry, the Huret Jubillee derailleur is in good shape and shifts nicely. I think the bike was not abused but was not given any maintenance in the important spaces. Somebody rode this bike a lot, wore down the mechanicals (chain rings are missing teeth!), and then put it away. All in all, an excellent opportunity to have some fun!

PXL_20220426_211348928

I have some thoughts on what to do based on reading around the forums, here's a few:

Wheels: I'm going to put the tubulars aside for now. Normandy Luxe hubs are in OK shape, but I've read that cones are unobtanium - will the hubs last with regular maintenance, or should I pick another option? I was thinking that an alternative could be Maillard 700 hubs laced to modern rims in either 700c or 650b - I know the Competition has clearance for wide tires (up to 38mm with fenders?) this is one of the reasons I wanted to find one, I was thinking I might do a 650b conversion. I may spec a hub dynamo, this always seems like a good idea, but I have one already on my touring bike, so I'll think about that. This guy could be my light-and-quick comfortable long distance rider, where the Voyageur is the heavier "take all the things with you" bike. The Wasp does as it wishes, either in fixed or sturmey archer IGH guise.

Gearing: Huret Jubilee and shifters are in nice shape, I'd like to keep it running, but could be limited by its range as I understand. I do have a NOS Suntour V-GT Luxe sitting around, but then I'd probably go for Suntour bar ends. The five-speed freewheel is in surprisingly decent condition, but I was thinking that a six-speed freewheel could be a good option, I've read about the Suntour ultra six which could work? Looking for suggestions there. Definitely want to use a triple, we have some big hills to the north and I like to have options. Right now the bike has the original TA crank. Not sure of my options, crank wise, that'll look nice - I know VO has their TA copy, but it is expensive. I would need new rings for the existing crank, and I have read about a "tripilizer" being an option, so would that be relevant here? I was also considering Stronglight cranks of the period, because they look great.

Brakes: All original Weinmann. I was thinking new cables and kool stop inserts into the original holders would be the ideal thing, but if I do a 650b conversion, this may not be practical for reach - I may need another option.

Frame: All parts to be removed, and the frame gently cleaned, and the spots touched up, and I'll find a "Competition" transfer to get on there before a preservation wax is applied. I think I'll leave the 531 stickers alone, it seems like a tradition for them to be faded. I read (maybe it was from gugie that someone knows a good touch-up matching black paint?)

Thanks for reading.

P.S. "Ged117" is pronounced like the "G" sound in "Ghostbusters" mixed with "Jed" as in Jed Clampett. So basically Jed117 spelled with a G, named after a character in an Ursula le Guin story. Somebody asked me in a PM so I thought I'd just share that...
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Old 11-07-22, 11:00 AM
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Very nice! @gugie’s Big Red is a Competition converted to 650b. Looks like your current brakes are Weinmann 610, so a pair of Weinmann/DiaCompe 750 would give you another 14mm of reach.
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Old 11-07-22, 11:20 AM
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You will probably have to add a washer and spread your rear triangle by about 2mm, but a SunTour Ultra-6 freewheel is a great option, and what I used when I repurposed my 1970 UO-8 as a commuter/beater.

I am with you on tubulars -- much as I liked them in the 1970s, I no longer have time or inclination to fool with stitching, sewing, and gluing.
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Old 11-07-22, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
Frame: All parts to be removed, and the frame gently cleaned, and the spots touched up, and I'll find a "Competition" transfer to get on there before a preservation wax is applied. I think I'll leave the 531 stickers alone, it seems like a tradition for them to be faded. I read (maybe it was from gugie that someone knows a good touch-up matching black paint?)
I did some minor torchwork on @Andy_K's black Competition awhile back, I think he used glossy black Rustoleum. I've seen it, and it's a perfect match.
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Old 11-07-22, 12:00 PM
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That is a gorgeous bike. Nice find!

I think the main question is whether you want to retain that lightweight, elegant look and feel. If so, I'd stick with the 700 wheels, the transparant high-flange hubs and the Huret Jubilee transmission. Add a pair of nice and expensive 28mm tires and a set of smooth Honjo fenders, and Bob's your uncle.

The short cage Jubilee can apparently handle quite a nice range of gears. This is an Alex Singer I came across a few years ago in Belgium, which I thought was a good compromise between looks and usability:



The RD is a short cage Jubilee:

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Old 11-07-22, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie
I did some minor torchwork on @Andy_K's black Competition awhile back, I think he used glossy black Rustoleum. I've seen it, and it's a perfect match.
I think this is the best picture I have for showing the match:



The area around the water bottle bosses here is repainted with Rust-Oleum Stops Rust Gloss Protective Enamel in black. Everything else seen here is the original paint.
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Old 11-07-22, 01:21 PM
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Nervar's an option for a triple. If you really want to go clincher, then Wolber hard-ano would do it, but I'd give those high-flange Normandy an inspection and a chance. This will be like a Wasp that can climb hills. Bonus.

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Old 11-07-22, 01:31 PM
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Nice bike in good original condition, I never seem to find those.
Wheels: The Competition hub cones and races may well be fine, definitely check before replacing them.
Gearing: The short-cage Jubilee can actually shift gears over a fairly wide range, up to a certain point of course. Maybe not a wide triple. There is a very nice SR triple crank with black rings for sale in the For Sale section here. Those cranks were based on, and are compatible with, the 86 mm bcd Stronglight 99. Great vintage triple.
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Old 11-07-22, 02:52 PM
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Great bike. I will say if the bike was specced with 27s, 650b may require surgery. My 73 fit 700cx35 and fenders easily. Extremely smooth riding frameset.
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Old 11-07-22, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
That is a gorgeous bike. Nice find!

I think the main question is whether you want to retain that lightweight, elegant look and feel. If so, I'd stick with the 700 wheels, the transparant high-flange hubs and the Huret Jubilee transmission. Add a pair of nice and expensive 28mm tires and a set of smooth Honjo fenders, and Bob's your uncle.

The short cage Jubilee can apparently handle quite a nice range of gears. This is an Alex Singer I came across a few years ago in Belgium, which I thought was a good compromise between looks and usability:



The RD is a short cage Jubilee:

That is a nice looking Singer. I'm leaning toward the TA Cyclotouriste crank as pictured, looks like it is being run there with a five-speed cog. I'm open to keeping it a five-speed, as the freewheel I have now is in great shape. TA chainrings are also widely available, another plus - I'm also one of those people that builds a bike and if I really like it, the configuration could stick around for a long time.

Originally Posted by Andy_K
I think this is the best picture I have for showing the match:
The area around the water bottle bosses here is repainted with Rust-Oleum Stops Rust Gloss Protective Enamel in black. Everything else seen here is the original paint.
Thanks Andy! I figured I would use some rust converter on the spots, and then apply the touch up.

Originally Posted by 1989Pre
Nervar's an option for a triple. If you really want to go clincher, then Wolber hard-ano would do it, but I'd give those high-flange Normandy an inspection and a chance. This will be like a Wasp that can climb hills. Bonus.
The Normandy Competition hubs are in a good condition. I will likely be servicing them and using them, but wanted to hear others' thoughts. As for rims, I was thinking of sourcing new, but open to suggestions. I may seat wide tires, so I'm not sure how well vintage 700c rims would seat modern wide tires.

Originally Posted by kroozer
Nice bike in good original condition, I never seem to find those.
Wheels: The Competition hub cones and races may well be fine, definitely check before replacing them.
Gearing: The short-cage Jubilee can actually shift gears over a fairly wide range, up to a certain point of course. Maybe not a wide triple. There is a very nice SR triple crank with black rings for sale in the For Sale section here. Those cranks were based on, and are compatible with, the 86 mm bcd Stronglight 99. Great vintage triple.
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm looking forward to trying it out beyond the few test rides I took when I brought it home.

Originally Posted by 52telecaster
Great bike. I will say if the bike was specced with 27s, 650b may require surgery. My 73 fit 700cx35 and fenders easily. Extremely smooth riding frameset.
Thanks 52. The bike had tubulars originally specified (which I think are about the same as 700c?). To be honest, I've been inspired by all the converted machines completed and posted by gugie and others, the JP Weigle bikes, randonneur machines, and related posts here about the versatility of these frames.
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Old 11-07-22, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
Very nice! @gugies Big Red is a Competition converted to 650b. Looks like your current brakes are Weinmann 610, so a pair of Weinmann/DiaCompe 750 would give you another 14mm of reach.
Thanks Neal! Filed away in my 'in search of things to search for' folder.
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Old 11-23-22, 02:27 PM
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Normandy Luxe Competition cones are badly pitted

I thought I'd seek opinions from fellow BFers on hub options. The original Normandy Luxe Competition hub cones are toast. I took the front apart and I don't think it was ever serviced in 50 years, which is a real shame. Dried up old grease and lots of pitting. I had a hell of a time getting the locknut loose.

I do have a low-flange Maillard 700 front hub handy, but ideally for the Competition I would build a new clincher wheelset with either period or somewhat newer nos or otherwise very good condition high-flange hubs and I think H+Son TB14 polished rims.

Campy Record is mega dollars now, so that leaves hunting for Maillard 700 Professional in nos or otherwise really good shape. I want to run the five-speed freewheel I have (after a visit to freewheel spa) or a narrow six-speed freewheel.

Anyway, slightly disappointed at the condition of the cones (which are unobtanium), but not surprised.
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Old 11-23-22, 03:07 PM
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Wow, you really lucked out on finding this Comp in such lovely condition, and still with the original build intact!

Coincidentally, I also acquired a '73 Comp from another user on the forum - same size as yours and everything. It's in decidedly worse condition, so I have no qualms about putting it under the torch for 650b conversion, but I'm also itching to just build it up with components from the parts bin. Needless to say, I'll definitely be following this thread.

I do have a low-flange Maillard 700 front hub handy, but ideally for the Competition I would build a new clincher wheelset with either period or somewhat newer nos or otherwise very good condition high-flange hubs and I think H+Son TB14 polished rims.

I wouldn't think twice about having a nice newer wheelset built up, and also making slight adjustments to the original spec to make it more ridable. That's the whole point, after all!

Additionally, I can attest to the insane tire clearance on these framesets. Here are some pictures of a rough mock-up of my '73 with 32c Gravelkings and 40mm V-O fenders. It looks like your frameset has the same quick-taper chainstays and the sweet sloping Davis fork crown, so you can probably expect the same clearances:




The fork especially has quite insane clearance (makes 32s look like 23s!) bolstered even more by the fact that this is a 27" frameset.

Last edited by heidelbergensis; 11-23-22 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 11-23-22, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by heidelbergensis
Wow, you really lucked out on finding this Comp in such lovely condition, and still with the original build intact!

Coincidentally, I also acquired a '73 Comp from another user on the forum - same size as yours and everything. It's in decidedly worse condition, so I have no qualms about putting it under the torch for 650b conversion, but I'm also itching to just build it up with components from the parts bin. Needless to say, I'll definitely be following this thread.


I wouldn't think twice about having a nice newer wheelset built up, and also making slight adjustments to the original spec to make it more ridable. That's the whole point, after all!

Additionally, I can attest to the insane tire clearance on these framesets. Here are some pictures of a rough mock-up of my '73 with 32c Gravelkings and 40mm V-O fenders. It looks like your frameset has the same quick-taper chainstays and the sweet sloping Davis fork crown, so you can probably expect the same clearances:



The fork especially has quite insane clearance (makes 32s look like 23s!) bolstered even more by the fact that this is a 27" frameset.
Thanks! I already have three bikes with fenders that I run in wet or nasty conditions, so I may run this Raleigh without and fit 35mm tires with fenders or 38mm without fenders for all day comfort in the nice weather of late spring and summer.

I have thought about using Velo Orange high-flange hubs if I don't find anything somewhat period correct and in nice shape, but I'd prefer to use vintage but nearly new condition on this build. I've already sourced a TA Cyclotouriste triple as well.
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Old 11-23-22, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
I ran into this issue on my '60 Paramount. Just a suggestion on a little cleaner cable routing to the nds of the seat tube:
Are you telling me that the unused adjuster screw isn't what bothers you about my setup?

Anyway, I prefer not routing the cable in front of the seat tube.
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Old 11-23-22, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
Are you telling me that the unused adjuster screw isn't what bothers you?
No, that bothers me too.

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Old 11-24-22, 12:17 PM
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I have had four pairs of Normandy Competition hubs, and on three of them the rear unit had pitted bearing surfaces (front units always good). One time I monkeyed around trying to fit cones from other hubs, but nothing I had worked. A good short-term solution is to just ride the pitted hub for a while. The Normandy Sport is supposedly a step down in quality, but there are lots of them around, and I've actually had better luck with the cones and cups. Maillard 700 is very nice, I would rate it about even with Campagnolo Record.
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Old 11-25-22, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kroozer
I have had four pairs of Normandy Competition hubs, and on three of them the rear unit had pitted bearing surfaces (front units always good). One time I monkeyed around trying to fit cones from other hubs, but nothing I had worked. A good short-term solution is to just ride the pitted hub for a while. The Normandy Sport is supposedly a step down in quality, but there are lots of them around, and I've actually had better luck with the cones and cups. Maillard 700 is very nice, I would rate it about even with Campagnolo Record.
I run a 1960s version of the high-flange Normandy Sport front hub (all round holes) on my '51 Sun Wasp, and it spins reasonably well with fresh bearings and grease. As you say, there are plenty around for spare parts.

For my purposes with the Competition, I won an auction for a really nice Maillard 700 front in high-flange yesterday, so now I'll snoop around for a comparable rear hub.
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Old 11-25-22, 02:56 PM
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My Competition has a 14-28 SunRace freewheel (MFM2A) that is handled fine by the derailleur. I have the stock chainrings on it. I like the cloth bar tape on your bike (Edit. oops that was the Singer with the red bar tape)
Good luck

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Old 01-20-24, 09:07 PM
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Resurrected for an update that may interest folks. For the past year or so I've run the Competition with a fixed wheelset to help decide whether to keep it or not. Getting some seat time in I discovered what wonderful riding frames these '70s Raleighs are and now it's a keeper! However, it is in need of a refreshing.

I recently picked up an '88 Schwinn Voyageur for a touring build with 700c conversion that I'll post in a future thread, so that left me with a surplus Super Champion Mod 58 27" wheelset to play with. I decided that for the time being, it would be perfect for the Competition. A little added weight aside, I like the French parts continuity, as the SC 58 wheelset is built with Maillard hubs so that'll go with my Huret mechs. The wheels cleaned up nicely and I dug out the old grease and balls from the hubs and repacked with fresh bearings and grease. As an aside, I had to re-stock my bearing supply and it was surprisingly difficult to source grade 25 bearings.

I decided I wanted this bike for rides at speed carrying only the necessities. We have some excellent hills north of the city, so I want this bike to have the gearing to climb them. I found a TA Vis 5 / Cyclotouriste triple, 50x40x30, and sourced courtesy of pastorbobnlnh 's Freewheel Spa a number of very nice condition parts, including a freewheel to hang on the frame. Practically unused, and newly serviced Atom 77 Compact 6-speed freewheel with NOS sprockets, 14t-30t; Huret Duopar Eco RD, Huret Success FD, and a nice pair of Suntour bar end shifters, which being a long and lanky creature I prefer over downtube shifters.

Big question: The Competition doesn't have brazed-on downtube shifter mounts, only a stopper on the frame for bolt-ons, so I'm not quite sure what part to source for the shift cable adjusters / housing stops so that I can run the bar ends. Any suggestions?

PXL_20240120_184557722

The freewheel looks great and turns with an energetic tick of the pawls. Looking forward to having it out on the road in the spring. Thanks, pastorbobnlnh !
PXL_20240120_184540919

The frame needs some care and attention after 50 years of neglect. I've been treating the rust spots with either naval jelly or evaporust. Rustoleum Automotive Gloss Black is a straight match, according to folks around here, so the top tube will be getting some paint. I'm using some Turtle Wax polish to bring out the shine on the good paint sections, Simichrome on the socks and chainstays, and I have some fresh 531 and Competition decals on order from Lloyds in the UK.
PXL_20240120_184524276

I picked up some new Pasela PTs today to replace the original Schwinn 27 x 1 1/4 tires the Modele 58 wheelset was wearing.
PXL_20240120_184509806

Next up I have more frame and parts cleaning to finish up, still need to remove the cartridge bottom bracket I used for its time as a fixed wheel bike, and then it'll be ready to hang the crank and mechs and run the shift cables. I have a seatpost on standby and the original Brooks B17. Not sure on the bar tape, I don't fancy black or the red anymore, not sure what to match with my brown saddle. I'm not sure brown tape will look as good as it does on my green bikes with brown saddles.

PS the bike in the background is a 1959 Raleigh Canadian, a Sports in all but name and livery. It needs a lot of frame help, but I have some cool period parts waiting for it.

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Old 01-20-24, 09:29 PM
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A timely resurrection of this thread, for me at least. Looking at a '78 Competition GS early in the week, so I've been diving into all threads/things (I can find....) related. I need another bike/project like, well you know the saying, but... I wish the one I'm looking at was black- so much nicer looking than the silver. But it's complete and in good shape. In the same boat as far as needing lower gearing for my terrain. I've got a Stronglight 49d set up as a compact double I may use...

What you need for running bar-ends is one of these-

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Old 01-21-24, 06:44 AM
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If'n you like French parts continuity, consider a Huret cable stop.
Pic from the bay.
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Old 01-26-24, 06:38 PM
  #23  
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Im running suntour barcons and cable stop clamp on my 73 Comp.

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Old 01-26-24, 09:01 PM
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It's a shame to swap out that TA Professional crank. but I expect that chainrings are getting tough to find. It looks like it could go down to around a 32 or 34, but you might have to have one made, and it wouldn't be worth it. I vote for a Stronglight 99 if you can find one. A TA Cyclotourist would look correct on this bike as well, and there are a lot of them around, but they have very little space between the large chainring and the crankarm, so you need a front derailleur with a very flat outer cage. You sure can't beat the chainring selection they offer. The Jubilee was available in a long cage version, but I think the max for this one was a 26. It would be a tad anachronistic, expensive, and fragile, but the Huret Duopar would shift a wide range setup like a dream. The Titane version is 5x nicer than the Eco, but they both shift the same. You should have enough clearance to fit at least 32 mm tires in the frame--maybe even fatter, whereas going to a 650B setup might get you to 38 mm--is that really worth it? The widest spot of a 650B is about where the rim of a 700C falls (325 mm from the axle). Measure the width between the chainstays at that point, subtract 10 mm, and that's about the widest you should go.

The Normandy Luxe Competition hubs are better than the standard model, but that's not saying much. The 700s were a big step up, but cones for those are scarce, too. I'd look for a set of Campy Tipos, though these days you can often score Record hubs for not much more. With the miles that bike has on it, and the apparent lack of maintenance, I'd be impressed if the current cones are not pitted.
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Old 01-27-24, 10:27 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
A timely resurrection of this thread, for me at least. Looking at a '78 Competition GS early in the week, so I've been diving into all threads/things
Is this now the "show off you Raleigh Competition" thread? Great, here's my 1980 at about 50% complete.

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