URCinelliIsFake

Hey. I could use some help identifying this frame. Any help would be appreciated. So, distinguishing characteristics:

• Steel (obviously)
• Either fillet-brazed or TIG-welded then filed smooth
• Ritchey Type 74 drop outs
• older Cinelli-style bridge
• extended seattube
• recessed rear brake cable routing in and out on top of the toptube
• two holes for a badge on the headtube (right higher than left when facing it)
• very sleek 1" aero fork
• 27.0-27.2mm seatpost diameter
• English BB
• No visible Serial Number
• 700c/700c
• frame and fork weigh about 2.7kg (55cm racing geometry)

See pics. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

seypat

Does the steerer tube have any rifling like this? It can down what kind of tubing it is.

seypat

It looks similar to some older Breezer Venturis I'm seeing online.

URCinelliIsFake

Yes, it does have butting in the steer tube and the seattube. Looks like double butted.

URCinelliIsFake

I actually thought about the Breezer Venturi, but this does not have the squared-off tube ends like the Breezer, the welds or brazing on this frame is much finer than the Breezer, it is lighter than the Breezer, the Breezer never had internal brake cable routing, the Breezer has a different bridge, and the Breezer never used Ritchey drops. Very ironically, though, there is an Italian company called Venturi who made frames that look a lot like this, and used Ritchey drops, but this frame isn't quite the same as any of their models. The toptube sealed brake line routing is very reminiscent of Basso or Gios (Gios has the patent for it), but it likely isn't those either.

T-Mar

Six, wide splines are consistent with a Tange steerer tube. In which case there may be a Tange logo and alpha-numeric date code stamped on the outside of the steerer tube. Are the fork dropouts Ritchey or Tange?

seypat

The tubing mfgrs have different rifling in their tubing. As T-Mar pointed out, the fork in the previous post is Tange Prestige tubing. Here is one made with Columbus SL. The tubing/DO combo might help narrow the search.

URCinelliIsFake

It is butted, not splined. It's not a Tange fork. It appears to be Columbus or Dedacciai. There is no pantograph or stamp on the tube or the fork drops.

URCinelliIsFake

True. It's butted, not rifled. The butting appears to be SLX, or possibly Dedacciai.

unworthy1

uh...pardon me if this is an ignorant (and snarky) comment but have we seen a pic of the steerer on the OP's BLUE painted "areo/uniclown" fork or just other examples (other colors) that show some popular butts with popular rifling styles?
OP says "It appears to be Columbus or Dedacciai.", personally I have seen only one "labelled as Deda" fork and that had no rifling in the butt, if not for the fork blade label I'd have had no idea what brand tubing was used. Also it came on a frame with a Deda label, so there's that, but not a guarantee.

cudak888 

Any marks on the BB, either visible or under the plastic cable guide?

-Kurt

URCinelliIsFake

Those are other people showing their "butts" (LOL), which are, in fact not butting but are "splines" or grooves - one is extruded, the other is machined. You are correct, this is an "aero" fork, as you put it (learn how quotes work, BTW); however, it is not a "uniclown" (which I understand you to mean unicrown) fork - learn the difference. I have seen many Deda steerers with butting, but that 's more on high-end bikes that, maybe, you haven't been exposed to. And anyone can put any label on any bike - that doesn't mean anything. Hence why I am on here asking, instead of just sticking whatever decals on it. Sorry if that sounded snarky.

PS - I'll post a pic of the steerer next opportunity. But of course, that does not tell me what the frame is, as one can put any fork with any frame.

URCinelliIsFake

I wish, but, unfortunately whomever painted it pretty thick or powder coated it - so none visible. I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth stripping and restoring.

AeroGut

I think you created some confusion by answering the question about *rifling* with “yes it has butting”. It sounds like you meant “no, but it has butting”.

URCinelliIsFake

Yeah - I figured the author of the original question didn't know the difference, and that he/she meant butting instead of "rifling". Particularly as there is no such thing as "rifled" frame tubes. And since either butting or splining could reasonably be referred to as "rifling", then my answer was appropriate. Kind of like them asking "is it blue?", and me answering "yes, it is cerulean". So, a more specific answer to a more general query. Thanks for the incorrect grammar lesson though - really helps identify the frame!

C9H13N 

No one who has ever looked in a rifle barrel could possibly mistake “butting” for “rifling”.

URCinelliIsFake

Exactly - because "rifling" in bike tubing DOES NOT EXIST!!! No bike tubing EVER has been rifled. That's why I said that he was using the term "rifling" improperly, and he likely meant that it was either splined or butted. But, he used the generalized term "rifling" which, again, does not exist in bicycle manufacturing; but a layperson may use the generalized term "rifling", if they do not know what splining or butting is. I inferred that he meant either splining or butting because, again, rifling bicycle tubes is a fairy tale. Seriously, apply some critical thinking or, you know, read before you type.

Also, do you think that the type of "rifling" in gun barrels is the only type of rifling in the world? ROTFL!!! And, don't look down a gun barrel - a lot of stupid people have died that way.

machinist42

Columbus refers to the augmentation to their steerer tube as "helicoidal reinforcement," not "splining" or "splined."

You might take your query over to CR where you can and strut your little knowledge to the likes of Merz, Sachs, Fattic, and others? Can put in a word for you with Dale. If nothing else, it will be amusing for a minute.
Someone there may ID your example? Not interested in helping because you are Butted. (sic)

(How can you not know whether it's welded or brazed?)

dedhed

After rifling through this thread it appears to be about semantics

AeroGut

That wasn't a lesson in grammar. It was a suggestion to pay attention to the questions from people who are trying to help you and give clear answers. Given that the questioner provided a helpful photo of exactly what they were referring to, it was quite clear that they didn't mean butting. But if asking for help and then assuming people don't know what they're talking about and being rude to most of them works for you, by all means keep at it.

velomateo

These 90's bikes with Ritchey dropouts pop up from time to time, we should probably start compiling a list of builders that used them.
I know Ibis built a version of their Spanky frame with them, so that might be a rabbit hole to go down.

URCinelliIsFake

Yes - but I'm not the one who made it about semantics; am I.

URCinelliIsFake

Helicoidal reinforcement IS butting. And welding which has been filed down is identical to brazing; especially since brazing is essentially welding then filing down. LMAO!

Also, since you are trying to be pedantic, I'll return the favour: you can only use "sic" if you are quoting someone, and "butting" is the correct term.

URCinelliIsFake

No, it was a failed attempt at being pedantic; likely to boost your self-esteem at the expense of another. Kind of like the above message.

Also, you'll note that I didn't correct him, or condescend to him. All I did was reply "Yes, it is butted". I corrected you, because you were being rude.

obrentharris 

Where do I find the train wreck emoji?
Brent