Frejus restoration
11-22-22 | 05:08 PM
#1
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From: Oxfordshire
Bikes: Wilier team gtr, Focus Raven2, boardman pro 29er
Frejus restoration
Hey folks,
I can't believe I haven't come across these forums before. Hopefully this is the right place for some old bike advice.
I've been asked by a friend to help recommission her late father in laws old Frejus as a Christmas surprise for her husband.
She dropped it round yesterday and its just gorgeous. It's in really good condition.
I can't link to the photo album just yet as I'm too new. Will post it when I can.
Finish wise, there's not much to do, paint and chrome is very good and just needs a gentle clean and polish.
Serial number is 02087
Wheel and steering bearings are perfect.
The chain looks a little worn but not too bad (take a look at the video) I would take advice on this. It does at least need a clean.
The rear mech is very clogged up. I have access to an ultrasonic bath. Is this a good idea or too aggressive? Should I stick to cleaning products and a nylon brush?
Tubular tyres are perished and the glue is brittle and dry. I've seen some glue remover (muc off, soudal), does anyone have a recommendation?
Tyres wise, there are a lot of modern choices, I'm not sure this will get ridden much so I think that cost and vintage appearance are a priority. Any recommendations? (in the UK)
That's it for now, other than if anyone has any thoughts on model or age. It would be nice to find a little more info about it.
Thanks in advance
Andy
I can't believe I haven't come across these forums before. Hopefully this is the right place for some old bike advice.
I've been asked by a friend to help recommission her late father in laws old Frejus as a Christmas surprise for her husband.
She dropped it round yesterday and its just gorgeous. It's in really good condition.
I can't link to the photo album just yet as I'm too new. Will post it when I can.
Finish wise, there's not much to do, paint and chrome is very good and just needs a gentle clean and polish.
Serial number is 02087
Wheel and steering bearings are perfect.
The chain looks a little worn but not too bad (take a look at the video) I would take advice on this. It does at least need a clean.
The rear mech is very clogged up. I have access to an ultrasonic bath. Is this a good idea or too aggressive? Should I stick to cleaning products and a nylon brush?
Tubular tyres are perished and the glue is brittle and dry. I've seen some glue remover (muc off, soudal), does anyone have a recommendation?
Tyres wise, there are a lot of modern choices, I'm not sure this will get ridden much so I think that cost and vintage appearance are a priority. Any recommendations? (in the UK)
That's it for now, other than if anyone has any thoughts on model or age. It would be nice to find a little more info about it.
Thanks in advance
Andy
11-22-22 | 05:25 PM
#2
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From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: old ones
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...I have cleaned literally hundreds of rear derailleurs in an ultrasonic. It works fine, but you'll need to re-lubricate the pivot points and take off the outer cage plate and the pulley wheels to do a good job. If it's a Campagnolo New Record, when you get all the crud off, the pulley wheels are probably cracked. This is because of shrinkage of the plastic they used, not a result of using the ultrasonic. You can still use them that way, but most people replace the wheels with something newer that works.
...I have cleaned literally hundreds of rear derailleurs in an ultrasonic. It works fine, but you'll need to re-lubricate the pivot points and take off the outer cage plate and the pulley wheels to do a good job. If it's a Campagnolo New Record, when you get all the crud off, the pulley wheels are probably cracked. This is because of shrinkage of the plastic they used, not a result of using the ultrasonic. You can still use them that way, but most people replace the wheels with something newer that works.
11-22-22 | 05:30 PM
#3
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From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: old ones
Two free pictures, for your thread.
.
...The chrome on this one got painted, somewhere along the way to me.
...I have literally no idea what the serial numbers on these indicate. This one is from the mid 1960's.
...The chrome on this one got painted, somewhere along the way to me.
...I have literally no idea what the serial numbers on these indicate. This one is from the mid 1960's.
11-22-22 | 05:32 PM
#4
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From: Niagara Region
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500, Miele Touring and Batavus Pro
If you have an outdoor place to set the wheels, I have made a tray of foil and added an inch of gas. We're talking maybe a cup in total so not a major amount but it clears old glue.
I set the wheels upright in that for a half hour then turn and soak the next bit and so on. Just try not to cover any decals as they will be destroyed.
I set the wheels upright in that for a half hour then turn and soak the next bit and so on. Just try not to cover any decals as they will be destroyed.
11-22-22 | 05:46 PM
#6
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From: Oxfordshire
Bikes: Wilier team gtr, Focus Raven2, boardman pro 29er
Thanks for the info, I'll strip that mech (simplex) and get it cleaned up. The paint on this thing is all original and simply gorgeous. Wish I could post pics!
11-22-22 | 06:01 PM
#8
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Alta California
on your member page here at the forum there is a link on the right margin where you can create a "member album"
there is no minimum post requirement to do this
once your album is created readers can visit your member page and place the images into the discussion thread
welcome to the forum!
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11-22-22 | 06:16 PM
#9
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Bikes: 82 Medici, 85 Ironman, 2011 Richard Sachs
- If the glue is brittle, I’ve had the best luck chipping and scraping it off with a dull flat screw driver.
- Veloflex or Vittoria for tires and use glue not tape.
- if after the ultrasonic cleaning, the chain and cog set look better, they may be fine—especially if it won’t be ridden much.
- with the paint and chrome in such good condition, I suspect the cables and housings will be fine.
- looking forward to pics.
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I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs. But I do hate all e-bikes.
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs. But I do hate all e-bikes.
11-22-22 | 06:53 PM
#10
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Joined: Nov 2022
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From: Oxfordshire
Bikes: Wilier team gtr, Focus Raven2, boardman pro 29er
Thanks for your advice folks, I've uploaded some pics in my profile. Although I realised I too a whole bunch of close ups and none of the entire bike. Oops...
11-22-22 | 07:39 PM
#12
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From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Strongly encourage you to proceed with extreme caution. This should be preserved with the utmost care.
Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're obviously in the right place.
Elbow grease, mild soap, soft cloths and a careful hand will win the day here.
Anything that you really have to get after will need to be removed or isolated to work on.
This is fantastic and wonderful.
11-22-22 | 08:09 PM
#14
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Joined: Feb 2013
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From: Alta California
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the blue washer with the three-pointed star on the cycle's Simplex Competition front gear mech is a helpful dating aid
it was only employed 1959-1960-1961
the cycle's Simplex Prestige model 636AR rear gear mech had not as yet launched at this time so it is likely to be the replacement of an earlier model Simplex rear gear mech which was there originally
final year for model 636AR was 1968
cycle's wheels and saddle pillar are much later than its birthday
for the time being you can probably say it is approximately 1960
the machine's chainset is the Zeus Competition model from Spain
it was discontinued in 1971 but do not know a launch year for it
the machine's original chainset may have been cottered steel and this set represents a replacement
the manufacturer of the cycle, Emilio Bozzi, tended to favour chainsets from the Way-Assauto firm although they used other makers as well
you mentioned the narrow gearing
the smallest inner chainwheel made to fit this set is 43T
other readers far more knowledgeable shall be along shortly to give you more and better information regarding the cycle
-----
the blue washer with the three-pointed star on the cycle's Simplex Competition front gear mech is a helpful dating aid
it was only employed 1959-1960-1961
the cycle's Simplex Prestige model 636AR rear gear mech had not as yet launched at this time so it is likely to be the replacement of an earlier model Simplex rear gear mech which was there originally
final year for model 636AR was 1968
cycle's wheels and saddle pillar are much later than its birthday
for the time being you can probably say it is approximately 1960
the machine's chainset is the Zeus Competition model from Spain
it was discontinued in 1971 but do not know a launch year for it
the machine's original chainset may have been cottered steel and this set represents a replacement
the manufacturer of the cycle, Emilio Bozzi, tended to favour chainsets from the Way-Assauto firm although they used other makers as well
you mentioned the narrow gearing
the smallest inner chainwheel made to fit this set is 43T
other readers far more knowledgeable shall be along shortly to give you more and better information regarding the cycle
-----
Last edited by juvela; 11-22-22 at 08:28 PM. Reason: addition
11-22-22 | 08:49 PM
#15
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Wow, what a beauty! From the head tube badge and the serial number, I'd guess this is an early 50's bike with more modern bits added here and there. Because of the oval on the top of the seat tube, this is one of the higher line models. Does it have Campagnolo dropouts? If so, it's probably the top-of-the-line Super Corsa. Great bike!
Last edited by FrejusFlyer; 11-22-22 at 08:58 PM.
11-22-22 | 08:57 PM
#16
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From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: old ones
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...FWIW, there's a lot of information on Frejus bikes scattered around on various sites on the internet.
Here is a link to the Classic Rendezvous Frejus serial number data base. You can see why I have no idea what these numbers might indicate.
The best explanation I've seen is probably the one on the Condorino website, here. But his focus is mainly on Legnano. Also look here.
Condensed version of the above: the serial numbers on these are pretty confusing.
...FWIW, there's a lot of information on Frejus bikes scattered around on various sites on the internet.
Here is a link to the Classic Rendezvous Frejus serial number data base. You can see why I have no idea what these numbers might indicate.
The best explanation I've seen is probably the one on the Condorino website, here. But his focus is mainly on Legnano. Also look here.
According to the RSC registry, Emilio Bozzi S.p.A. used a common or shared sequence of serial numbers for all three of their brands: Legnano, Wolsit and Perla. This is understandable as all three of the Bozzi brands were produced in the same factory. Legnano was also the last of the three brands to be acquired by Emilio Bozzi, originally founded by Vittorio Rossi in 1902. As an aside, Legnano’s long time rival Bianchi was founded in 1885.
The RSC registry shows that the Bozzi serial numbers began in 1920, about the time that Emilio Bozzi acquired the Legnano brand, and were ‘reset’ or redefined in format at several points in time. Here is how it all plays out....etc, etc.
The RSC registry shows that the Bozzi serial numbers began in 1920, about the time that Emilio Bozzi acquired the Legnano brand, and were ‘reset’ or redefined in format at several points in time. Here is how it all plays out....etc, etc.
The other thing that was common to many of the Frejus and Legnano ‘exceptions’ in the early 70’s was the serial number stamped vertically on the left side of the seat tube just below the seat lug. So what was going on? One thing is certain, the practice did not last long at Legnano as all formats of serial numbers or production numbers were gone by the mid 70’s and the same seems to be true for the Frejus brand however I little more research is required on the latter.
The first two photos below the serial number 31114 is stamped on the left side of the seat tube on a 1971 Frejus Tour de France that I recently acquired. The third and four images below show the serial number 31388 stamped in the identical location on a 1971-72 Legnano Olimpiade Record Specialissima (note that this Roma uses the Frejus seat lug). And the last photos show the serial number 32141 on a 1972 Legnano Gran Premio in the same location and orientation on the seat tube. All of these frames have their original factory paint.
The first two photos below the serial number 31114 is stamped on the left side of the seat tube on a 1971 Frejus Tour de France that I recently acquired. The third and four images below show the serial number 31388 stamped in the identical location on a 1971-72 Legnano Olimpiade Record Specialissima (note that this Roma uses the Frejus seat lug). And the last photos show the serial number 32141 on a 1972 Legnano Gran Premio in the same location and orientation on the seat tube. All of these frames have their original factory paint.
11-22-22 | 11:55 PM
#19
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Amazing condition given the age of the bike. Merziac and others are correct , I would use gentle , non detergent soap to clean. When I had a classic car I always washed it with baby shampoo. It cleans with no damage to sensitive paint . Just a few drops and Luke warm damp wash cloth. There are a lot of products that are on the market for preserving the finish on older paint, although the paint on that bike looks very nice . Probably one of the easiest restorations I’ve seen here because it looks so good already.
11-23-22 | 12:45 AM
#20
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From: Sacramento, CA
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...a lot of the components on your bicycle have been updated/swapped out with more modern stuff. The crank, wheels, brakes are certainly newer than the frame. I too, think the rear derailllleur is an update, but it is pretty close to what was available a little later than the frame construction. My guess is that it underwent a major restoration at least once at the hands of its former rider. You can look on Velobase to get an idea of what was availble at the time the frame was made. Here is a link to the brakes that are currently on there.
This sort of frees you up in your own restoration of this bike, because a lot of that stuff is not original. Once the chrome starts to fail on one of those Simplex rear derailleurs, it's hard to make them look good again. There are plenty of them in the used parts stream that look remarkably similar to that one, because they made then and sold them on all kinds of bicycles, for a very long time. If it were me, I would probably just replace that one with something shinier, if you are stuck using Simplex because of the rear dropout on the frame. If it's a Campagnolo dropout, with a stop for one, the period correct go to would probably be a Gran Sport. But it looks like it was set up for Simplex, and it would be a shame to lose the front changer.
Somebody just started up this whole thread on Simplex, with lots of pictures from stuff currently in service : https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...omponants.html
Not sure I'd try to search out a period correct crank, because that's a lot of work and can get expensive. The one you have on there should work fine. It's hard (not impossible, but hard) to set up one of those Simplex suicide lever fronts to handle much of a jump in front chainrings. This bicycle has pretty typical gearing for the period. Bikes were steel then, and so were bicyclists. You run into a hill, you stand up and mash the pedals.
...a lot of the components on your bicycle have been updated/swapped out with more modern stuff. The crank, wheels, brakes are certainly newer than the frame. I too, think the rear derailllleur is an update, but it is pretty close to what was available a little later than the frame construction. My guess is that it underwent a major restoration at least once at the hands of its former rider. You can look on Velobase to get an idea of what was availble at the time the frame was made. Here is a link to the brakes that are currently on there.
This sort of frees you up in your own restoration of this bike, because a lot of that stuff is not original. Once the chrome starts to fail on one of those Simplex rear derailleurs, it's hard to make them look good again. There are plenty of them in the used parts stream that look remarkably similar to that one, because they made then and sold them on all kinds of bicycles, for a very long time. If it were me, I would probably just replace that one with something shinier, if you are stuck using Simplex because of the rear dropout on the frame. If it's a Campagnolo dropout, with a stop for one, the period correct go to would probably be a Gran Sport. But it looks like it was set up for Simplex, and it would be a shame to lose the front changer.
Somebody just started up this whole thread on Simplex, with lots of pictures from stuff currently in service : https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...omponants.html
Not sure I'd try to search out a period correct crank, because that's a lot of work and can get expensive. The one you have on there should work fine. It's hard (not impossible, but hard) to set up one of those Simplex suicide lever fronts to handle much of a jump in front chainrings. This bicycle has pretty typical gearing for the period. Bikes were steel then, and so were bicyclists. You run into a hill, you stand up and mash the pedals.
11-23-22 | 02:02 AM
#21
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From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 1960 Carlton Franco Suisse,1974 Peugeot PX10, 1970 Hetchins, 1953 Rotrax Super Course, 1972 and 78 Raleigh Professionals, 1972 Schwinn Paramount, 1972 Motobecane Le Champion, 1965 and 67 Carlton Flyers, 1975 Raleigh International, 1972 Gitane TDF
I really don’t know if we’re going to be able to put an accurate date on this frame. While this bike is certainly beautiful, it’s been repainted and stocked with parts from various years. Some of the transfers are vinyl. Look at the TA bottle cage, it’s not strapped to the frame with metal straps but bolted into braze ons. For all we know none of this stuff is original including the head badge. I like this bike a lot and I love seeing it here, these are interesting parts and the build is well thought out. I don’t mean this as any kind of criticism and I’m no expert. Many people here certainly know better than I do. Whatever year it’s from this a nice find. I’d still love to see a pic of the entire bike and maybe a pic of the dropouts, both front and back.
Last edited by Pcampeau; 11-23-22 at 02:12 AM.
11-23-22 | 02:38 AM
#22
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From: PDX
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
I really don’t know if we’re going to be able to put an accurate date on this frame. While this bike is certainly beautiful, it’s been repainted and stocked with parts from various years. Some of the transfers are vinyl. Look at the TA bottle cage, it’s not strapped to the frame with metal straps but bolted into braze ons. For all we know none of this stuff is original including the head badge. I like this bike a lot and I love seeing it here, these are interesting parts and the build is well thought out. I don’t mean this as any kind of criticism and I’m no expert. Many people here certainly know better than I do. Whatever year it’s from this a nice find. I’d still love to see a pic of the entire bike and maybe a pic of the dropouts, both front and back.
Most of these have poor paint by now so the repaint may be the best part of this, especially if it was done long ago and the braze ons really don't hurt at this point.
Agree on more, better full on pics.
11-23-22 | 03:08 AM
#23
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From: NW Burbs, Chicago
I owned 04146 a while back. I was fairly confident that it is from 1948. Date on stem and BB spindle. I would assume 02087 is similar, 1947/48. I don't have much to add other than the frame was made in Torino. After Bozzi bought Frejus in 1945(?), he did not move production to Milano until the early 1950s,
11-23-22 | 05:01 AM
#24
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From: Evanston, IL
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Dale Brown has a Frejus serial number registry on the Classic Rendezvous website:
Frejus serial number chart
There aren't many earlier than the early 50s. I'd go with iab's estimate of late 40s. That Delrin Simplex rear derailleur is way too new for the bike, but if that's how the FIL outfitted it, then it's correct for the purpose. It likely would have had a Simplex Tour de France or similar pull chain derailleur.
Frejus serial number chart
There aren't many earlier than the early 50s. I'd go with iab's estimate of late 40s. That Delrin Simplex rear derailleur is way too new for the bike, but if that's how the FIL outfitted it, then it's correct for the purpose.
It likely would have had a Simplex Tour de France or similar pull chain derailleur.
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11-23-22 | 06:55 AM
#25
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I really don’t know if we’re going to be able to put an accurate date on this frame. While this bike is certainly beautiful, it’s been repainted and stocked with parts from various years. Some of the transfers are vinyl. Look at the TA bottle cage, it’s not strapped to the frame with metal straps but bolted into braze ons. For all we know none of this stuff is original including the head badge. I like this bike a lot and I love seeing it here, these are interesting parts and the build is well thought out. I don’t mean this as any kind of criticism and I’m no expert. Many people here certainly know better than I do. Whatever year it’s from this a nice find. I’d still love to see a pic of the entire bike and maybe a pic of the dropouts, both front and back.