Indexed shifters DT clamp...?
03-10-23, 08:24 AM
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Indexed shifters DT clamp...?
I thought ‘well, this should be easy enough,’ but of course we’re talking vintage bikes here, so maybe not… I want to put indexed shifting on the old Valgan I restored. I personally prefer friction, but the bike is way to small for me, so I’m either going to give it to a good riding pal (who prefers indexing) or I’m going to keep it around for visitors to use (who I’m also going to assume will prefer indexing). Anyway… I’ve got the Shimano mechs (yeah, I know I’ll have to tap and dremel the Simplex dropout, but this isn’t a valuable frame), the freewheel, narrow chain, and the shifters in my parts bin… But the bike doesn’t have brazed on shifter posts. I’ll just find a band with standard Campy-style posts, right? Hmmm, maybe not…? I don’t seem to be coming up with anything that looks like it would obviously work. And then I’m wondering, hmm, the ‘cups’ (or whatever they’re called- the part of the shifter assembly that sits closest to the frame), which I think have the tabs that make the indexing work, are curved to match the down-tube… how’s that going to work with a clamp? Am I trying to do something here that seems really simple, but turns out to be complicated (and involves spending more $ than I want to)?
03-10-23, 08:42 AM
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03-10-23, 08:43 AM
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I use one like that on my daughters Trek 710.
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03-10-23, 08:45 AM
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03-10-23, 08:46 AM
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03-10-23, 08:49 AM
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Shimano made a downtube clamp for their indexed shift levers. I have one that came with 105 six-speed levers. It is compatible with other Shimano levers.
Photo from VeloBase
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03-10-23, 09:17 AM
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I decided I'd better test this with some actual Shimano levers. What I have on hand are Dura-Ace SIS downtube levers. While the lever, with its proprietary Shimano curved adaptor does physically mount on the clamp, the proprietary SIS tension bolt thread is not compatible with that on the clamp, so the lever doesn't actually work. Friction-type levers for Campagnolo-type braze-ons do work using the Huret tension bolt. Other Shimano downtube levers may also work, you'll have to test them yourself.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 03-10-23 at 09:32 AM.
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03-10-23, 09:32 AM
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The clamp mount referenced by @Classtime is compatible with Campagnolo-style braze-on levers. Make sure your Shimano levers are designed to mount on Campagnolo type braze-ons; some Shimano levers use a proprietary braze-on and non-standard thread spec.
03-10-23, 09:37 AM
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03-10-23, 10:47 AM
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Ah, interesting- for whatever reason I thought part 7 was part of the indexing. So I wonder is the guts (part 3) have any interchangeability (assuming I could get it out of the lever…)- I’ve got nice shiny silver 6sp, and ugly grey 7sp… if I could put the 7sp guts in the silver lever that’d be neat…
03-10-23, 12:18 PM
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I don’t remember if I needed different screws for the Huret clamp or maybe they were included in my eBay buy. And I think the levers are not perfectly 180 degrees opposed but I didn’t want to spend the big bucks for a Shimano clamp. Also, neither scalloped nor flat pieces will fit pleasingly with this clamp but either will look better than a Problem Solvers clamp.
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03-10-23, 12:44 PM
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Shimano made two different indexing systems. One used a removable indexing pod like the illustration above, and the other was fully sealed. All of the pod-based shifters are interchangeable (6208, DA 740X, DA7700, DA 7800, possibly some others) but none of the sealed ones (1050,1051,1055,640X,RSX,6434,7900, and others) can swap indexing bits with anything at all. Same deal with bar end shifters:some are pod based, others are not.
If using later Shimano downtube shifters with 5mm bolts, look for later clamp mounted ones that use the later boss mount like the 1050 six speed ones in the illustration above. There are still some 6207, older DA, Golden Arrow and earlier friction clamp mounts out there that use the earlier 4.5mm bolts; these are not easily interchangeable with the 5mm shifters.
If using later Shimano downtube shifters with 5mm bolts, look for later clamp mounted ones that use the later boss mount like the 1050 six speed ones in the illustration above. There are still some 6207, older DA, Golden Arrow and earlier friction clamp mounts out there that use the earlier 4.5mm bolts; these are not easily interchangeable with the 5mm shifters.
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03-10-23, 01:16 PM
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Hmmm, so it seems that (in theory, at least...) I could repurpose the clamp of the old Simplex Criterium shifters with a bit of sanding/grinding of part 7 in the above diagram. Might have to figure out some kind of shim or something to take up a little bit of rotational play. Then the issue is the screws/bolts. The Simplex band is M5 x 1.0 threaded, which don't seem particularly easy to find (and the original Criterium bolts are too short...). I'm going to kinda guess 'no', but can M5 x 1.0 be tapped to M5 x .8..?
03-10-23, 08:37 PM
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Ah, interesting- for whatever reason I thought part 7 was part of the indexing. So I wonder is the guts (part 3) have any interchangeability (assuming I could get it out of the lever…)- I’ve got nice shiny silver 6sp, and ugly grey 7sp… if I could put the 7sp guts in the silver lever that’d be neat…
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03-10-23, 11:21 PM
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Here’s a rundown of my [mis-] adventures in downtube clamps for indexed shifters.
Two types of clamps for suntour’s ratcheting powershifters. The one on the right comes with removable threaded inserts.
These won’t readily accept the shimano shifters without some hack.
Next is the corresponding shimano clamp with removable inserts.
Mine was missing one insert, so I placed an order for what I thought was the correct part: the shimano bar end shifter axle (M5 threaded), purchased from sjscycles.com.
Turns out it was not quite the same part. As shown in the photo above, the bar-end axle insert has a larger head which prevents it from completely clearing the clamp opening. Otherwise they are the same length.
Here’s a comparison of the various axle inserts:
L-R: shimano bar-end axle, shimano downtube clamp axle, suntour downtube clamp axle
L-R: shimano bar-end axle, shimano downtube clamp axle, suntour downtube clamp axle
Both the shimano axle inserts are M5 threaded, are a direct fit for shimano indexed shift levers, will accept the shifter bosses. Shown for comparison, the suntour axle thread is non-metric and sightly smaller than M5.
I’m still on the lookout for a second shimano clamp axle insert to complete mine, although project plans have since changed direction away from these.
Hope this is useful somehow.
Two types of clamps for suntour’s ratcheting powershifters. The one on the right comes with removable threaded inserts.
These won’t readily accept the shimano shifters without some hack.
Next is the corresponding shimano clamp with removable inserts.
Mine was missing one insert, so I placed an order for what I thought was the correct part: the shimano bar end shifter axle (M5 threaded), purchased from sjscycles.com.
Turns out it was not quite the same part. As shown in the photo above, the bar-end axle insert has a larger head which prevents it from completely clearing the clamp opening. Otherwise they are the same length.
Here’s a comparison of the various axle inserts:
L-R: shimano bar-end axle, shimano downtube clamp axle, suntour downtube clamp axle
L-R: shimano bar-end axle, shimano downtube clamp axle, suntour downtube clamp axle
Both the shimano axle inserts are M5 threaded, are a direct fit for shimano indexed shift levers, will accept the shifter bosses. Shown for comparison, the suntour axle thread is non-metric and sightly smaller than M5.
I’m still on the lookout for a second shimano clamp axle insert to complete mine, although project plans have since changed direction away from these.
Hope this is useful somehow.
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03-11-23, 07:42 AM
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Well, useful (as are the other posts) in terms of getting me thinking that it may be easier to just keep my eye out for a set of clamp-on indexed shifters for cheap rather than try to cobble something together with the ones I have!
03-11-23, 07:44 AM
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03-11-23, 05:05 PM
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It was awhile ago, but I think I did use a m5 tap on mine because the French thing. It was easy and with the tap, cheaper than finding a shimano clamp. Easier than tapping French cranks.
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03-11-23, 06:09 PM
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03-12-23, 07:11 AM
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If you're looking at 7 or 8 speed, these might be a "quick and dirty" fix. Front shifter on both appears to be friction; rear appears to be index only on both.
8-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357247
7-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357246
Price seems quite reasonable. No endorsement of vendor implied (have done business with them on occasion). Have not personally used either shifter set.
8-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357247
7-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357246
Price seems quite reasonable. No endorsement of vendor implied (have done business with them on occasion). Have not personally used either shifter set.
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03-12-23, 08:16 AM
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If you're looking at 7 or 8 speed, these might be a "quick and dirty" fix. Front shifter on both appears to be friction; rear appears to be index only on both.
8-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357247
7-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357246
Price seems quite reasonable. No endorsement of vendor implied (have done business with them on occasion). Have not personally used either shifter set.
8-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357247
7-speed: https://www.performancebike.com/sunr...sd0s0/p1357246
Price seems quite reasonable. No endorsement of vendor implied (have done business with them on occasion). Have not personally used either shifter set.
