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Got a Raleigh SP (Was: Got an SBDU)

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Got a Raleigh SP (Was: Got an SBDU)

Old 03-25-23, 09:39 AM
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Got a Raleigh SP (Was: Got an SBDU)

EDIT: Probably not an SBDU, but a Nottingham-made 1990's Raleigh "Special Products" frame with anachronistic decals. More below.

Just got it from the seller. Can't make out the # yet, seems to be B01051 which doesn't make sense.

More later.








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Old 03-25-23, 09:51 AM
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The seatstay caps look authentically SBDU, as do the stays at the dropout, but I agree that the serial number breaks with the usual method of starting with SB.

Steve in Peoria
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Old 03-25-23, 10:06 AM
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Definitely different than my '77 and the '83 that came through the stable. I would think that There should be a Union Jack and/or TI tubing right above the bb. Interested in seeing the badge upclose, it looks like Raleigh of America perhaps.

Banana!
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Old 03-25-23, 01:47 PM
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I donít claim to know exactly what this is but didnít Raleigh drop their W serial numbers after 1989 and begin anew with A in 1990? Is there any chance this is a lightweight ďSpecial ProductsĒ with B indicating 1991? I only ask because on one of the FB groups Iím in someone brought forth a G serial number and the experts said 1996. The bike was clearly not from 1972. Iím just going from a vague memory here, I might be off on the year.

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Old 03-25-23, 01:50 PM
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can someone kindly educate me? What does SBDU stand for?
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Old 03-25-23, 01:57 PM
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Specialist Bicycle Development Unit (SBDU)

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Old 03-25-23, 02:00 PM
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Can't wait to see how you lengthen the head and seat tubes for a better fit.

Maybe a better title might be, "Is This a Real SBDU, or a Knock-Off?" And only posted the BB picture.
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Old 03-25-23, 02:03 PM
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It does appear that the black is decal, or not paint. That does mean something when identifying years, or repainted.
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Old 03-25-23, 03:37 PM
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Does not look like a Raleigh Team Professional to me. The serial numbers I have seen have been located vertically near the the edge of the bottom bracket shell as opposed to horizontally along the bottom bracket shell of this bike. The serial number would be formatted like SBxxxx with 'x' being up to four numeric digits. The first digit would be not be a '0'. The numbers would be 1 to 999 and 1000 to about 8438.
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Old 03-25-23, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RB1-luvr
can someone kindly educate me? What does SBDU stand for?
Iíve been learning espresso machines so now I read it ďsingle boiler dual useĒ but also it still sounds like a munition
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Old 03-25-23, 04:57 PM
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I donít have enough posts to give the link but if you search for SB4059 there is a site with lots of of formation on SBDUs
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Old 03-25-23, 05:07 PM
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very nice, enjoy your new bike
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Old 03-25-23, 09:03 PM
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Thank you for all the comments - it's been a busy day and stripping this down and cleaning it took a back seat until an hour or two ago. Daylight is gone so the following grungy pics will have to do.

Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
The seatstay caps look authentically SBDU, as do the stays at the dropout, but I agree that the serial number breaks with the usual method of starting with SB.
Originally Posted by rjhammett
Does not look like a Raleigh Team Professional to me. The serial numbers I have seen have been located vertically near the the edge of the bottom bracket shell as opposed to horizontally along the bottom bracket shell of this bike. The serial number would be formatted like SBxxxx with 'x' being up to four numeric digits. The first digit would be not be a '0'. The numbers would be 1 to 999 and 1000 to about 8438.
I agree, there's as much here that generally points to SBDU as there are things that make one suspect otherwise. Repaint is definitely on the table, which adds another layer of complexity.

Going for it is:
- Oversized stay caps
- Under-the-TT cable guides
- Chainstay and seatstay end treatment matches up with late SBDUs

Against it is:
- Odd paint job
- Decals that don't reflect the era of the frame
- Wrong 531 decal - main tubes only, not 531c? Wouldn't expect it on anything with the oversized caps.
- Serial number that doesn't reflect anything - if this is a '86/87, it'd be SB7___ or 8___
- Lugs look similar to the Cinelli lugs used at the end of SBDU production, but I don't think they are. BB is clearly not.
- General finish is meh

Taking the headbadge at its word though, i.e., late production with the pressed aluminumheadbadge, there are a lot of thing here pointing to late production 1986/7 - the narrow lugless crown, the traditional oversized seatstay caps, chainstay and seatstay end treatment.

If anything, it's clearly Nottingham-era production if an SBDU. Dropping the fork is definitely the next step; checking the steerer is a must at this point.

I'm trying to think though: Did Raleigh UK offer a model during the late 1980's that nearly duplicated the SBDU, but in normal production? That would explain everything, but I haven't come across anything like that - yet.

Scratch that: The 1988 UK catalog has a number of offerings that do look promising - the '88 UK Record Ace and the Banana-replica UK Competition look like possible matches; possibly the Corsa as well. Can't make out the headlugs on any of them, and the fork crown less so.

Originally Posted by Mr. 66
Definitely different than my '77 and the '83 that came through the stable. I would think that There should be a Union Jack and/or TI tubing right above the bb. Interested in seeing the badge upclose, it looks like Raleigh of America perhaps.

Banana!
The TI and Union Jack decals seemed to fall by the wayside once the traditional team colors were phased out. Either way, everything here is pointing to the decals being anachronistic to the frame.

Raleigh USA it isn't; we said bye to lugged steel in '86.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Can't wait to see how you lengthen the head and seat tubes for a better fit.

Maybe a better title might be, "Is This a Real SBDU, or a Knock-Off?" And only posted the BB picture.
I picked it up knowing full well whether it's an SBDU or not, the bits will probably cover what I paid for it. Then I can find out whether I can ship my way into a larger frame

I may ask for the thread title to be changed, knowing what I know now about the '88 lineup.

Unfortunately, it seems as if I was able to get decent pictures of all the important details, so maybe it's not worthy of that title

Originally Posted by Mr. 66
It does appear that the black is decal, or not paint. That does mean something when identifying years, or repainted.
While I'm still wondering what's up with the serial (unless someone forgot to stamp the S in SB, and I'm reading the 0 wrong), I do think "repaint" is definitely on the list of possibilities. All the decals are stickers, and there's evidence of them being from a digital-era printer. Also, the 531 decal is incorrect.

FYI, someone did paint black under the seattube mast decal for the water bottle cages, so at least some effort was made.

As promised, more pics:



The under-the-TT cable routing - used on SBDUs of the time, but also on the '88 UK lightweight range:





Not the right headlugs. Also sloppy.



Butted frame tubes only? Smells more like "wrong decal."



Paint around this area shows a few marks that suggest paint underneath.



More pics in the next post.
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Old 03-25-23, 09:10 PM
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If anything, this is the biggest smoking gun to suggest general Nottingham production: Chainstays cut off flat and not mitered to the bottom bracket. Sloppy and not what I'd expect from top-notch framebuilders.

However, this type of "workmanship," plus the nail-pinned tubing is what I'd expect of the Nottingham boys. Down those pints now.



Downtube is also cut flat and mitered only to the seattube; the seattube is the only tube actually mitered to the BB.



Digital printing artifacts in the decals, though we know they're not original in the first place:



Pump peg also present on the '88 UK range.



Plain rear brake bridge - based on the pictures I found tonight, such an approach would have likely had tangs on either side on an SBDU:



Another thing that sticks out - through-bolt seatlug and those cast stiffening wings below the ears. SBDUs were smooth.





And finally, the serial that makes no sense. pastorbobnlnh, I made it a point to take the Obscure And Obviously Upside-Down Bottom Bracket Pic just for you.



And since I don't troll for the sake of being a royal pain in the taillamp, here's a decent picture of the BB. B04351. That's not even a reasonable serial for general Raleigh production.



-Kurt
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Old 03-25-23, 11:40 PM
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If you search the SB4059 site alluded to by DavidBrussels in post 11, you will find this post SBDU ďSpecial Products DivisionĒ serial number format that matches the format on your frame. The author makes no claims about itís accuracy but itís the best speculation I can find.



This one below is not my bike and not my photo, just a screen grab but the owner says itís an A serial number from 1990. There is no photo of the serial number available. Frame details seem to match yours.

Iíd post links but Iím a dinosaur and I just donít know how. Sorry screen grabs are all I can do.

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Old 03-26-23, 06:04 AM
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[MENTION=40306]cudak888[/MENTION] thanks for the BB closeup pictures (and mention). In the first picture, however, "Raliegh" on the cable guide WAS correctly oriented. You should have backed the mounting screw out and rotated the guide 180 degrees, prior to pushing the shutter release.

Based on all the information presented, we need to petition the powers that be, for the title change.

Yet, with all that said, [MENTION=469225]Pcampeau[/MENTION] certainly presents compelling information regarding your BB Serial Number, which points to a 1991 model.
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Old 03-26-23, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pcampeau
If you search the SB4059 site alluded to by DavidBrussels in post 11, you will find this post SBDU ďSpecial Products DivisionĒ serial number format that matches the format on your frame. The author makes no claims about about itís accuracy but itís the best speculation I can find.

This one below is not my bike and not my photo, just a screen grab but the owner says itís an A serial number from 1990. There is no photo of the serial number available. Frame details seem to match yours.

Iíd post links but Iím a dinosaur and I just donít know how. Sorry screen grabs are all I can do.
Wow. I didn't even think to look there as I wasn't aware of the Special Products frames. As spotty as the info is on them, it at least lines up with it. It also lines up with the 1990's Tour de Lite sticker on the rear HED disc wheel that came with it, which seemed to be sponsored by Raleigh at the time. Pic incoming.

-Kurt
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Old 03-26-23, 10:04 AM
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Old 03-27-23, 04:57 AM
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Thread title changed.
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Old 03-27-23, 05:16 AM
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That's a great-looking bike with nice features. Are you going to get some miles on it this summer?
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Old 03-27-23, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Thread title changed.
Thank you!

Originally Posted by 1989Pre
That's a great-looking bike with nice features. Are you going to get some miles on it this summer?
I ride 58-59cm; there's no way I'm fitting it. I bought it purely because it might have been an SBDU - and even if not, it was obviously too interesting to pass up. If it had been an SBDU, I would have traded it off, but I'm going to keep it around for a bit until I'm sure those who may be researching the SP division have all the photos and documentation they may want of this thing.

Either way, I know I'll make back what I paid for it from the bits someone had thrown at it and still be able to keep the frame around as pure gravy.

It's a shame the PO gouged the Belleri porteur bars and cracked the 3TTT stem in doing so. With all the equipment out there, they had to dig up a 25.0/26.0 mismatch.

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