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Cassette or Freewheel on 7 speed 126 Hub (No Cold Setting to 130)

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Cassette or Freewheel on 7 speed 126 Hub (No Cold Setting to 130)

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Old 04-21-23, 01:17 PM
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Cassette or Freewheel on 7 speed 126 Hub (No Cold Setting to 130)

I'm going to pour some effort and resources into building up a wheel for a vintage road bike (Miele Lupa) that I like and hope to ride for a long time to come. Based on the parts that I have on hand, my options are:

1) 6 Speed Freewheel.

2) 7 Speed Freewheel.

3) 7 Speed Freehub.

Were cassette availability not a concern, the freehub would be my preference. That said, quality 7 speed road cassettes that don't cost a fortune seem to be becoming increasingly hard to find. Sunrace and Microshift have offerings for now. Big $$$ cassettes will likely continue to be available from high end manufacturers but, for a mid-range vintage bike that I probably couldn't sell for $300, I don't want to be limited to cassettes that cost more than about $80. And, based on what I see in the market, I get the impression that reasonably priced , 7 speed road freewheels might actually be available longer than equivalent free-hubs. You know, without resorting to mountain bike cassettes.

To my question: if you were in my shoes, which of the three options listed would you prefer? And why?
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Old 04-21-23, 01:34 PM
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There's another option. '9 of 8 on 7'. Or '9 of 10 on 7'. 9 and 10 Speed cassettes (non-Cues) should be plentiful still for a long time, especially common ones like 12-25.

From Sheldon's site: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

8 Of 9 On 7 -- or 9 of 10 on 7

If your 126 mm frame is aluminum, carbon fiber or held together by glue, you shouldn't try to spread it. That still doesn't mean that you're stuck with 7 speeds!

Any 7-speed Shimano Hyperglide Freehub will actually work with 8 or 9 sprockets, without any modification! What you need to do is to use 8 of the sprockets from a 9-speed cassette, with the 9-speed spacers -- or 9 of the sprockets from a 10-speed cassette. This trick also is useful when cassette body transplantation isn't possible -- on an off-brand hub or a Sachs 3 x 7 hybrid-gearing hub.

To make this work, you'll also need to use a 9- or 10-speed chain and shifters. Your old 7-speed derailer (except 1996 or earlier Dura-Ace) should work OK if it isn't too badly worn. Most, but not all, 9- and 10-speed shifters will work.

The limit stops on the derailer will cause the useless position on the shifter to be locked out, so this will work as a perfectly normal 8- or 9-speed rig.

Reader Justin Mohar writes:

I ran a "9 cogs of a 10 speed" set up for about a year on my road bike (having been originally inspired to give it a shot after reading Sheldon's "8 of 9" article) while waiting to build a new bike with a true 10 speed set up. I used an Ultegra 10 speed cassette (with the 4th cog and one spacer removed) on a 7-speed 105 hub. I also, of course, used 10 speed shifters (105) and chain (Dura Ace). My cranks and derailers were all 105 "7-speed," from the same group as the hub. This setup worked surprisingly well; the only issue was that shifting across the spot where the missing cog should have been was rather slow in both directions. I assume this was because the shift assist ramps on the now-next-to-each-other 3rd and 5th cogs did not line up properly, but I never really confirmed this in any way. Bottom line: it can be done. Feel free to post this info with your next update.

Justin is right about the reason for slow shifting. This issue is more acute with the narrower 10-speed inter-sprocket spacing. If instead, you remove the smallest or largest sprocket, all of the ramps will line up. Most 10-speed cassettes, and the fancier 9-speed cassettes, use a spider assembly for the larger sprockets, and so you would only be able to remove the smallest sprocket. You may need then to replace the second sprocket with one that has a built-in flange. For best shifting, this sprocket's teeth should align with those of the sprocket it replaces.

You could even have all 8 of 8 sprockets on a 7-speed body if you go to the trouble of dishing the inner sprocket -- even a 9 of 9 or 10 of 10 if you bolt the innermost sprocket to the next smaller one. Dished sprockets were at one time available from Tom Ritchie, and are available now on eBay. It also can be a do-it-yourself project. More details are here.
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Old 04-21-23, 01:46 PM
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What hub are you using? Or what hub whould you like to use? If if were me, I would go freehub/cassette (7speed). Yeah they have become scarce and yes, if you look them up on any given day you might get the impression that due to their scarcity that they are somehow supposed to be very expensive. If you are willing to wait and to just have your feelers out, then some good selections might just fall into your lap. For example: I picked up a Shimano 1055 7-speed cassette HG/UG hub off eBay a couple of years ago NOS for under 20$. But other than that building a 7 speed wheel, the number of pre-built 6 and 7 speed wheels is still such that when folks need to get rid of them and they find a worthy recipient, they are often happy to let them go for very little $$. Even HG-90 seven speed new cassettes which have a really lovely chrome finish pop up occasionally for decent asking price. Yeah some sellers would like to charge $199 or some rip off price for the cassette, but meanwhile other people will sell the same item for $35 if you keep your eyes open.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:03 PM
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Although I've never bent or broken a freewheel axle, I'm biased toward cassette systems, so #3 if other factors don't knock it out of contention.

There is much to grumble about in the selection of both cassettes and freewheels. You can find cheap or expensive options for either one. So, I think it comes down to the gearing you want. The available 6/7-speed freewheels are usually in the ballpark of 14-28, and the 7-speed cassettes are generally 11-28 or thereabouts. If you're picky about gear range and spacing like I am, that would drive different crank/chainring choices.

I haven't used the SunRace 12-24T cassette, but I like the way it's laid out: 12-13-14-16-18-21-24. If I were starting from scratch in 2023, I wouldn't have any qualms about buying a handful of those, a handful of chains to go with them, and being set for that project.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:06 PM
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I need to know more about your shoes: What gearing have you been running up to this point? If it's new to you, what derailleurs is it running? Friction or index? What crankset? You need to consider the whole system.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
What hub are you using? Or what hub whould you like to use?
My choices are:

1) 6 speed Shimano 1050 (105) freewheel. 126 OLN. I'm pretty sure that I could slap a 7 speed freewheel on there without issue.

2) 7 speed Shimano 150 freehub. 126 OLN.

3) 7 speed Deore 560 freehub that is a takeoff from my 1991 Miyata 1000. 130 OLN.

Interestingly -- to me at least -- is that all three hubs are identical in terms of flange width and spoke hole layout. I'll have to juxtapose axles and spacer etc but that's another conversation.

My preferred hub is the Deore 560. That might be the right number (I'm at the office) but it's definitely one of the first, if the the first, Deore hub I tihnk. It's beautiful, in excellent shape, and of high quality I believe. It'll be a bit weird to have a mountain bike hub on a skinny road bike wheel but I'm cool with that. It doesn't actually look all that much more heavy duty than the 105 hubs.

Last edited by Harold74; 04-21-23 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
My choices are:

1) 6 speed Shimano 1050 (105) freewheel. I'm pretty sure that I could slap a 7 speed freewheel on there without issue.

2) 7 speed Shimano 150 freehub.

3) 7 speed Deore 650 freehub that is a takeoff from my 1991 Miyata 1000.

Interestingly -- to me at least -- is that all three hubs are identical in terms of flange width and spoke hole layout. I'll have to juxtapose axles and space etc but that's another conversaion.

My preferred hub is the Deore 650. It's beautiful, in excellent shape, and of high quality I believe. It'll be a bit weird to have a mountain bike hub on a skinny road bike wheel but I'm cool with that. It doesn't actually look all that much more heavy duty than the 105 hubs.
The Deore would work well. If you purchase a 137mm axle from Wheels Manufacturing (126mm locknut to locknut dimension + 4.5 mm axle extending out each side for rear dropouts) this makes a perfect fitting 7 speed freehub for a 126mm spaced road frame. You have extra spacers with the 135mm hub that won't be needed once you shorten the axle.

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Old 04-21-23, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
My choices are:

1) 6 speed Shimano 1050 (105) freewheel. I'm pretty sure that I could slap a 7 speed freewheel on there without issue.

2) 7 speed Shimano 150 freehub.

3) 7 speed Deore 650 freehub that is a takeoff from my 1991 Miyata 1000.

Interestingly -- to me at least -- is that all three hubs are identical in terms of flange width and spoke hole layout. I'll have to juxtapose axles and space etc but that's another conversaion.

My preferred hub is the Deore 650. It's beautiful, in excellent shape, and of high quality I believe. It'll be a bit weird to have a mountain bike hub on a skinny road bike wheel but I'm cool with that. It doesn't actually look all that much more heavy duty than the 105 hubs.
I would check the size of the the Deore, make sure it is not 135
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Old 04-21-23, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
I need to know more about your shoes: What gearing have you been running up to this point? If it's new to you, what derailleurs is it running? Friction or index? What crankset? You need to consider the whole system.
The bike is new to me.

I've got lots of derailleur options and am confident that I can handle that. I'm rear derailleur obsessed for some reason. I've got 7 speed, 8 speed, 9 speed, 10 speed, long cage, medium cage, short cage, high quality, low quality... I'll figure something out.

I would prefer that this bike be indexed in the back. I enjoy friction for some applications but not for intense training rides where I find that friction shifting distracts me from managing my effort with precision. The usage cases for this bike will probably be 80% city bike / 20% intense 60 min training rides on relatively flat ground. With respect to training, this bike will represent a backup / fun change of pace from my primary training bike from time to time.

Last edited by Harold74; 04-21-23 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
I would check the size of the the Deore, make sure it is not 135
I have, it's 130. And I'll be turning it into a 126. Thanks for mentioning this.

Last edited by Harold74; 04-21-23 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
So, I think it comes down to the gearing you want...If you're picky about gear range and spacing like I am, that would drive different crank/chainring choices.
Tentatively, this is what I want for gearing:

- 46T 1X track crankset.
- 28T low cog should get me where I mean to go without things getting silly at the back.
- I really have no concern for the high cog. I don't really need to go any faster than about 40 kph on this bike. I estimate that I could get that done with a 15T high cog if such a thing existed. And this might point to the viability of the 8 of 10 type solutions that some of the other responders mentioned.
- A reasonable gear gradation is somewhat desirable to me but not a huge deal. This is a bike that I'll usually be riding alone. So I don't need to match speed on group rides or anything like that.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:49 PM
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If you don't plan on using it as a 130mm hub again, the axles are easy enough to cut down with a saw. Just thread on a cone inboard of the place you're cutting first, so you can chase the threads by removing it afterward.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Piff
There's another option. '9 of 8 on 7'. Or '9 of 10 on 7'. 9 and 10 Speed cassettes (non-Cues) should be plentiful still for a long time, especially common ones like 12-25.
Thanks for mentioning this Piff. I knew of it but somehow forgot to consider it for this application.

In the short term, I'm a bit constrained by my desire to use indexed downtube shifters on this build. This is what I've got for sexy stuff:

1) 105 six speed.
2) 600 seven speed.
3) Dura Ace 7900 nine speed currently committed to another bike that will eventually go 11 speed I think.

This will be a flat bar build so I'm not necessarily opposed to using something from my stable of bar ends mounted as thumb shifters. There, I have 7 spd, 9 spd, and 10 speed, currently not committed to anything.

Even if I don't do the partial cassette thing now, it's comforting to know that I have some options in the future should 7 speed cease to be viable.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
If you don't plan on using it as a 130mm hub again, the axles are easy enough to cut down with a saw. Just thread on a cone inboard of the place you're cutting first, so you can chase the threads by removing it afterward.
I'm not yet very handy when it comes to modifying this. Would the tool for this job just be a metal appropriate hacksaw? Or would I want something fancier. I was planning to go the Wheels Manufacturing route but I do like to sort things out on my own when I can manage. it.
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Old 04-21-23, 02:57 PM
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With regard to using partial cassettes (9 of 10 etc), I have some questions. Based on my limited experience to date, my understanding is this:

1) Freewheels do not have cogs that can be removed. Only freehubs have that.

2) My freehubs seem to always have the two smallest cogs as removable. And, frankly, I have no idea what that is.

Can these observations be generalized?
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Old 04-21-23, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
I'm not yet very handy when it comes to modifying this. Would the tool for this job just be a metal appropriate hacksaw? Or would I want something fancier. I was planning to go the Wheels Manufacturing route but I do like to sort things out on my own when I can manage. it.
Yep, I just used a hacksaw and then a flat file to make sure the end was square-ish after cutting. There is some wiggle room around the final axle length. It just needs to be long enough to be supported in the dropouts without protruding any further.
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Old 04-21-23, 03:17 PM
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I run a 9-speed modified Capreo cassette on my old Colnago. 126mm spacing. Unfortunately the Capreo is getting more rare.

The small sprocket comes mighty close to the dropout.

A 9-speed 11T cassette should also work, but it might require slightly more spacing.

I like building with "Off Center" or "Asymmetric" rear rims. It gives just a little extra angle to the DS spokes.

I've used Velocity Aerohead OC rims (I believe now discontinued, but a few are still around).

Velocity also has the A23 OC rims. DT Swiss also makes Asymmetric rims. Probably a few other brands too.
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Old 04-21-23, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
With regard to using partial cassettes (9 of 10 etc), I have some questions. Based on my limited experience to date, my understanding is this:

1) Freewheels do not have cogs that can be removed. Only freehubs have that.

2) My freehubs seem to always have the two smallest cogs as removable. And, frankly, I have no idea what that is.

Can these observations be generalized?
Freewheels can be disassembled, but you may have troubles if you're trying to modify the number of sprockets.

As far as cassettes. They vary from model to model.

Cheaper cassettes usually have 1 or 2 loose sprockets, then the rest are riveted together. You can drill out the rivets and end up with a pile of loose sprockets.

Ultegra freewheels often have 2 sprockets with integrated spacers. Several more sprockets with loose spacers. And, the largest 3 are connected together in a single unit. Dura Ace may be similar, but usually more sprockets on the common carriers. Those common carriers can't be easily modified, but can be swapped out.

Now, for 7 speed, in particular, there are two different styles of freehubs. One with a small notch on the outer edge that is meant to work with 11T or any other first sprocket cassettes. The other one doesn't have the notch, and will only work with 12T or larger cassettes.



From Sheldon Brown. Left for 11T first sprockets, right for 12T or larger first sprockets.

There are also freehubs with external threading for Uniglide cassettes, or both Uniglide and Hyperglide, but I believe that is mainly for 5s and 6s cassettes.

Uniglide parts are becoming more rare.


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Old 04-21-23, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
..quality 7 speed road cassettes that don't cost a fortune seem to be becoming increasingly hard to find. Sunrace and Microshift have offerings for now. ....
Shimano is still producing 7 speed Tourney and Acera groupsets. So there is no shortage of reasonably priced 7 speed cassettes. And Sunrace is perfectly fine. So is SRAM.
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Old 04-21-23, 07:09 PM
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For me this question is no-brainer. I would build my wheelset with a 7 speed Hyperglide freehub. I have a Shimano 6207 freewheel rim and it's heavier than the freehub counterpart. Also, It's pretty easy to take cassettes apart to make a custom cassette. All you need is the 7 speed spacers. I just did a search on Amazon and found a 12-28 7 speed cassette for 18 bucks.
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Old 04-22-23, 02:42 AM
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I've done a similar job on my 2 wheel sets for my Holdsworth Avanti (126 OLD):

1) Mavic Monthlery Route tubular + Campagnolo Nuovo Tipo hub + Sunrace 7 Speed freewheel (13-15-17-19-21-24-28)

2) Mavic MA2 clincher + Shimano RX100 (FH-A551) + SRAM PG-850 11-32 8 speed freehub (11-13-15-17-20-23-26-32)

On the RX100 FH-A551 is 8 speed, 7 speed version is FH-A550.

Both sets work with a SunTour Cyclone GT MkII, stop file down to handle 8 gears.

Edit: Almost forgot, you can get 6/7 speed freewheel with configurable cogs - SunTour New Winner.
I'm currently working on 6 speed in 120mm OLD: New Winner question

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Old 04-22-23, 12:20 PM
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Shimano 7-speed Hyperglide 14-28 freewheels are under $20 on ebay all day long, and will be available until the sun stops shining. I'm also using a 7-speed 13-26 Sachs sealed freewheel, but it was pricey.
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Old 04-22-23, 01:39 PM
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My experience with 126mm OLD with a freewheel: it depends. Any 6-speed freewheel and hub combo will work fine, but I have had inconsistent results with a 7-speed freewheel, depending on which model and which hub.
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Old 04-26-23, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Uniglide parts are becoming more rare.
Thank you for your comment. It wound up saving me both real money and real time. A detail that I omitted originally is that I don't actually have the 105 7 speed freehub. What I had was an agreement to purchase one from a fellow once he returned from vacation. It turns out that it is the IG only version of the hub which renders it useless for my purposes. You've saved me $60, a drive across town, and some disappointment.

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Old 04-26-23, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
I'm going to pour some effort and resources into building up a wheel for a vintage road bike (Miele Lupa) that I like and hope to ride for a long time to come. Based on the parts that I have on hand, my options are:

1) 6 Speed Freewheel.

2) 7 Speed Freewheel.

3) 7 Speed Freehub.

Were cassette availability not a concern, the freehub would be my preference. That said, quality 7 speed road cassettes that don't cost a fortune seem to be becoming increasingly hard to find. Sunrace and Microshift have offerings for now. Big $$$ cassettes will likely continue to be available from high end manufacturers but, for a mid-range vintage bike that I probably couldn't sell for $300, I don't want to be limited to cassettes that cost more than about $80. And, based on what I see in the market, I get the impression that reasonably priced , 7 speed road freewheels might actually be available longer than equivalent free-hubs. You know, without resorting to mountain bike cassettes.

To my question: if you were in my shoes, which of the three options listed would you prefer? And why?
Where are you looking for cassettes? Jenson has a whole mess of them for less than $30. They have a single head scratcher for $288 but that’s just an oddity. REI has 4 different cassettes available for $18 to $32…even some in close range road bike styles. And the evil Amazon has tons of them as well. You haven’t said what range of gearing you want which would help with any one offering advice.

I’d go freehub any time over a freewheel. Much better design.
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