Fork dropouts not aligned
 

First, yes I did a search for this answer. Also, this is a steel fork on one of my Legnanos.

Basically, the dropouts are misaligned so one is either too far forward or too far back fore and aft and it makes it difficult to drop the wheel into place smoothly.

How do I tweak it so the dropouts are in alignment? I’m talking a few mm FWIW. Using leverage from a 2x4 seems sketchy and using a mallet more so.

Also, how do I know if one dropout is in the correct position fore and aft?

Shoutouts to gugie and bulgie may yield a correct answer but others may also have a good solution.

Thx y’all!

The only thing I know is that you should practice on a cheapy one from the local co-op first :thumb:

For you, the answer is to book some time at the Atelier. It takes several tools to do this properly.

I'm retiring in a week, I know you work weekends, so ping me!

Yay for retirement!

I’ll need to do some disassembly so it’ll take a bit o’ time before I can swing by.

As grandpa would say, you’re a peach!

Whatever will you do with all of that free time?

Drink before noon, nap, belch.
Rinse and repeat.

Congratulations on retirement. The Old Head railroad switchman, would always say, there’s no days off in retirement!

So Gugie will take care of it. But in the meantime, if it rides straight no handed, leave it alone.

And scratch. You forgot scratch.

Many congrats. My retirement is looking more and more like it will come in late 2024, at which point I plan to train hard for the US Olympic Napping Team. It's probably too late for 2024, but I'm all in for 2028!

Congrats! Me too, though unexpected medical fun has delayed the Real fun a bit.

Fork alignment can be done with simple tools like a vise, a flat workbench, a good front wheel and a large rubber mallet. But it takes a fair bit of knowledge and experience to do it well in my opinion. I don't recommend trying it, though I know there are people out there with more than the average amount of natural ability and gumption who can git 'er done. The problem is there are a larger number of people who only think they're in that category.

Var made a somewhat light-duty gauge that clamps in a vise to measure the alignment, very good if you can find one. Much easier than aligning without such a gauge, though in theory the end result is the same. The one by Park is less rare but also less skookum. Still good enough in the right hands, but a typical shop rat can still do more damage than good. Just 'cuz someone owns the gauge doesn't mean they know how to use it properly.

My fork alignment gauge is over a hundred pounds of cast iron, not because it needs to be, just that I made it from some industrial parts that fell in my lap (ouch!) But that sucka doesn't move, doesn't flex, and the precision is way tighter than any bike fork needs to be. I've only used it twice since I made it, so it hardly justifies the space it takes up, but it brings me joy.

Seattle area folks are welcome to bring forks to me for alignment, my rates are fair, like a six-pack of strong ale. Yes I too am among the retired.

I just realized I don't have a picture of it finished, but here it is almost done:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...710dd72caa.jpg

See how the handwheel is too close to the fork crown? I put a spacer and a roller element thrust bearing under the wheel, smoother clamping and more room for fingers. And I bolt it to the bench, not using the C-clamps in the pic.

Mark B

Noted! :beer:

If you don't know what you are doing, you might want to think about doing it. I have straightened frames and forks as long as the damage is not great...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d651cfcb7f.jpg

In my mind, a fork set is harder to straighten. Chances are this one belongs in a toaster, cause it is toast...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9ec1a456fd.jpg

That said, show us your fork in a picture. I just might have one that will replace your damaged one.

Whatever you do, do not leave that fork unattended or Gugie’s gonna get carried away and decide you need some rack attachments


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00144dd31.jpeg

I'm very happy to discover that someone with much more knowledge and experience than myself also uses a rubber mallet for alignment purposes!

I'm envious of your fork alignment jig. I've walked myself mentally through how you would use it and I'm wondering about the purpose of the "good front wheel." Do you use the wheel to tell you whether the slot in one of the fork ends needs a little filing after you have used the flat surface and the square to align the fork in the other two planes?

Brent

Much good feedback so thank you all.

I’m not a purist in the vaguest sense but if something doesn’t work it annoys me. I can get the wheel into the fork but it takes some coaxing which goes against (some) of my mechanical sympathies. In theory, I could get things very close but since gugie is just down the road, that is probably the smart choice.

That “S” bend is very Art-Deco.

I wouldn't have qualms about fixing that fork, I think the damage is very unlikely to cause a problem down the road. It's less bending than it got when it was raked originally, and it's all below the heat-affected zone near the crown. It might not be worth it, $-wise, for a bike with stamped dropouts, but it is historically interesting so maybe. Definitely a go if it were a top-end model.

Nice work on that Nervex-lugged frame BTW, good save.

Mark B

My qualm about you doing it yourself is you might do some bending that needs to be un-done later. In the case of one tip forward of the other, you can twist them into parallel with the H-tools, but that might be the wrong way to fix it if the blade needs to be bent forward at the crown or at the rake. Then your H-tool bending will now be wrong and needed to be twisted back. Too much back and forth weakens the metal.
On the other hand, dropouts are intentionally made of very malleable, soft metal, so the risk is not severe. Feel free to twist them, if you have H-tools (Campy's name for them) or another similar tool of a different brand.

Or, if you can stand to wait, let Gugie do it. I know, that's what you just said. Just makin' conversation...

Sort of, but I don't like to file on a dropout. I know it's expedient and gets you down the road, but I'm a snob, so I think a dropout that's been filed that way is a Fail.

Yes the properly-dished wheel is the final arbiter of whether the two blades are the same length. Centering under the crown is a must. The square can tell you that too, but the wheel is more sensitive, i.e.any discrepancy at the square will be magnified up at the crown, so you can be more precise, using just you eyeballs, with the wheel.

If the wheel is off-center after getting the tips equidistant from the center plane, I prefer to add rake on the long side to shorten it, or take some curve out on the shorter blade. Which of those two options I choose depends on the existing bend situation; sometimes it doesn't matter but sometimes there's one blade that should get bent

If you started with both tips the same fore-aft, then after the rake changes, one tip will be forward of the other. So I'll usually bend whichever blade got the rake adjustment, up near the crown. If I decreased the curve, that tip is back compared to the other, so I'll bang that one forward such that it bends in the heat-affected zone near the crown. The amount of bending is so tiny you will never see it, no riples or cracks in the paint. I feel I need to state that, because I've had some people say bending the fork there is unsafe. Maybe it is, and I've been doing it wrong since the '70s? But zero fork failures (that I know of!) on forks I aligned in all that time, says any added danger is pretty theoretical. I'll accept that theoretical danger to not have to file on the dropout <ugh!>

Mark B

When [MENTION=536409]RustyJames[/MENTION] brings his fork by, I'll make sure and document the process.

And, btw, my rate is the same as [MENTION=160106]bulgie[/MENTION]'s, with the exception that my publicist, [MENTION=111144]Andy_K[/MENTION] disdains IPA's, and I try to keep him happy.

So Gugie and Bulgie and all, here in the freshwater Mitten (Michigan) I have a similar problem with a Trek 720 fork and rear triangle. The rear triangle is not so difficult to understand and I've been able to correct one or two cases (one of those Witcombs I worked on for a friend, and a UO-8), but the Trek's fork is knocked both sideways and twisted, so it's not a simple case! I do not think I have the skill, never mind the tools. I do have a rubber mallet, but I mainly use it to tap the tip of my saddle sideways to align it with the TT and DT before I tighten the seatpost clamp. I also have a 3# sledgehammer, which is the opposite. Anyway, I'm not equipped. Please suggest some similar enthusiast-based Atelier-types. Michigan seems to be losing professional frame-work practitioners.

Another reason I like Andy_K .:thumb:

Yep, that's the way I do it. Dang near impossible without a special tool.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81648aaaf5.jpg
The Babe Ruth of fork rerakers - repurposed baseball bat for leverage.

Noted! I’m more of a Belgian ale type so for the sake of maintaining a healthy business model I may bring the appropriate beverage.