Help with approximate date of vintage Gitane
09-24-23, 07:13 PM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Help with approximate date of vintage Gitane
I was given a Gitane (what I was told) frame. I would like to get an approximate age to know what style of decals to put on it when I restore it. It has a Campy headset, BB (French thread), dropouts, and bolt-on DT cable guide; Nervex BB shell, fork crown(?), and lugs. Appears to be mostly chrome under the paint. It has a "forked" rear pump peg along with the standard pointed "L" peg in the front under the top tube. Serial number is not totally legible, but this is what I can make out - ?0.3864.022F38. Where I have the 2 periods in the number there are superscript o's, like a degree marking. The F could be an E. Below the number appears to be a small "jug" on it's side stamped with a 6 inside. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have photos but can't post them b/c I don't have the minimum 10 posts yet.
09-24-23, 07:57 PM
#2
mycocyclist
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 2,205
Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 888 Post(s)
Liked 743 Times
in
422 Posts
Not Serial Number
I was given a Gitane (what I was told) frame. I would like to get an approximate age to know what style of decals to put on it when I restore it. It has a Campy headset, BB (French thread), dropouts, and bolt-on DT cable guide; Nervex BB shell, fork crown(?), and lugs. Appears to be mostly chrome under the paint. It has a "forked" rear pump peg along with the standard pointed "L" peg in the front under the top tube. Serial number is not totally legible, but this is what I can make out - ?0.3864.022F38. Where I have the 2 periods in the number there are superscript o's, like a degree marking. The F could be an E. Below the number appears to be a small "jug" on it's side stamped with a 6 inside. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have photos but can't post them b/c I don't have the minimum 10 posts yet.
OP's Album.
09-24-23, 08:08 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 13,929
Mentioned: 407 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 2,982 Times
in
1,966 Posts
-----
Zeusman -
the long string of markings beneath the NERVEX name on the bottom bracket shell has nothing to do with the cycle's manufacturer
these markings are from NERVEX and give technical information such as the angles of the shell's tube sockets
if a serial is present would expect it to be visible on the dropout
the forked pump peg to accept an AD HOC pump head puts the frame back into the nineteen sixties
front peg is NERVEX Ref. 845 and rear peg is NERVEX Ref. 846
possible that shield shaped symbol on bottom bracket shell may have been put in by a licensing agency
-----
Zeusman -
the long string of markings beneath the NERVEX name on the bottom bracket shell has nothing to do with the cycle's manufacturer
these markings are from NERVEX and give technical information such as the angles of the shell's tube sockets
if a serial is present would expect it to be visible on the dropout
the forked pump peg to accept an AD HOC pump head puts the frame back into the nineteen sixties
front peg is NERVEX Ref. 845 and rear peg is NERVEX Ref. 846
possible that shield shaped symbol on bottom bracket shell may have been put in by a licensing agency
-----
Last edited by juvela; 09-24-23 at 08:53 PM. Reason: addition
09-24-23, 08:51 PM
#4
Not in charge of anything
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glendora, CA
Posts: 468
Bikes: Merlin Extralight '94 & Cannondale Supersix '15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Liked 311 Times
in
183 Posts
Unaware that Gitane used Nervex. Possibly Motobecane?
The earliest Campagnolo headsets and bottom brackets used a unique script or font.
Close-ups might help.
The earliest Campagnolo headsets and bottom brackets used a unique script or font.
Close-ups might help.
09-24-23, 09:15 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,511
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4311 Post(s)
Liked 5,765 Times
in
3,358 Posts
I was given a Gitane (what I was told) frame. I would like to get an approximate age to know what style of decals to put on it when I restore it. It has a Campy headset, BB (French thread), dropouts, and bolt-on DT cable guide; Nervex BB shell, fork crown(?), and lugs. Appears to be mostly chrome under the paint. It has a "forked" rear pump peg along with the standard pointed "L" peg in the front under the top tube. Serial number is not totally legible, but this is what I can make out - ?0.3864.022F38. Where I have the 2 periods in the number there are superscript o's, like a degree marking. The F could be an E. Below the number appears to be a small "jug" on it's side stamped with a 6 inside. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have photos but can't post them b/c I don't have the minimum 10 posts yet.
Welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're in the right place, we live for this.
09-24-23, 09:17 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 13,929
Mentioned: 407 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3618 Post(s)
Liked 2,982 Times
in
1,966 Posts
...note presence of "willow leaf" seat stay caps...
...these are a MICMO signature and one not employed by Motobecane
-----
09-24-23, 09:26 PM
#7
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 303
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
119 Posts
Looks early to mid-1960s to me as well especially with pump pegs; however, the seat stay finish at top of stays does not look completely like Gitane (or MICMO’s pre-1966 sibling to Gitane, Geminiani) to me…can we get more photos of this key area? It may be just the angle, a little profile of seat stay top would be good
During the early to mid-1960s, MICMO used two seat stay finishes, on frames a step below the top, a diamond shaped cut and crimped swedged finish is used:
On high end frames, the top of seat stay is fitted with a “s” shaped cap inset into a diagonal cut in the stay, you can see the cut and crimped finish is designed to emulate the higher end cap (and the “s” shape shows up clearly in this photo):
Your frame has an inset cap but it looks to be a convex arc, more akin to a later willow leaf cap as found on top end Gitanes of circa 1968 to 1970 (but your bike looks earlier and does not appear to have this type either as on willow leaf you can run your fingernail under edge of cap around its entire circumference … also, no pump pegs):
Again, it might just be the angle. Better photos would allow for better answering you questions (or letting you know it ain’t a MICMO frame).
During the early to mid-1960s, MICMO used two seat stay finishes, on frames a step below the top, a diamond shaped cut and crimped swedged finish is used:
On high end frames, the top of seat stay is fitted with a “s” shaped cap inset into a diagonal cut in the stay, you can see the cut and crimped finish is designed to emulate the higher end cap (and the “s” shape shows up clearly in this photo):
Your frame has an inset cap but it looks to be a convex arc, more akin to a later willow leaf cap as found on top end Gitanes of circa 1968 to 1970 (but your bike looks earlier and does not appear to have this type either as on willow leaf you can run your fingernail under edge of cap around its entire circumference … also, no pump pegs):
Again, it might just be the angle. Better photos would allow for better answering you questions (or letting you know it ain’t a MICMO frame).
Last edited by Markeologist; 09-24-23 at 09:55 PM.
09-24-23, 09:38 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 19,884
Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3263 Post(s)
Liked 2,550 Times
in
1,821 Posts
Some aspects appear Bertin, some not.
09-24-23, 09:43 PM
#9
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 303
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
119 Posts
…and here is a slightly earlier bike, maybe 65/66 with pump pegs:
Likes For Markeologist:
09-25-23, 12:56 AM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 13,511
Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2
Mentioned: 260 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4311 Post(s)
Liked 5,765 Times
in
3,358 Posts
09-25-23, 04:05 AM
#11
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 303
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
119 Posts
Gitane did in early to mid-1960s … an upper mid-level bike, 3 tubes 531, mixed French and Italian components with cut and crimped swagged seat stay caps…an early TdF or CdM perhaps of 1963-1965 vintage given Jacques picture on seat tube:
Last edited by Markeologist; 09-25-23 at 04:08 AM.
Likes For Markeologist:
09-27-23, 09:27 AM
#12
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 303
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked 263 Times
in
119 Posts
Well I’m sure thinking early to mid-1960s Gitane…sure would like to see that seat stay finish from different angle though. I found another pic in my collection of a Gitane with the “s” shaped seat stay finish (as opposed to cut and crimped as I posted above) and it has the pinstriping too:
This is a high end bike with the finished caps, full 531, and full Campagnolo Record (Mafac brakes) instead of the 3 tube 531 with mix of French and Italian components found on bike in my previous post:
This is a high end bike with the finished caps, full 531, and full Campagnolo Record (Mafac brakes) instead of the 3 tube 531 with mix of French and Italian components found on bike in my previous post:
Last edited by Markeologist; 09-27-23 at 10:22 AM.
