Phillips - Raleigh Frame??
11-19-23, 05:17 PM
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Phillips - Raleigh Frame??
Hi everybody !
Came across a "Phillips - Raleigh Bike" with a Carlton Decal on the frame (pictures in my gallery)
Seller says its from the 80's and has replaced some original parts.
I dont know if the images are good enough. I'm looking for a medium-range route Bike (hopefully european Made) for casual rides and this one is offered for 150 USD.
Do you think its worth the price? What would be your recomendations on what to look for?
My main concern is for it to hace gears and a frame as light as possible (I live on a Hill and own a quite heavy single speed).
I hope to learn some tips to be able to discern nice frames myself when I come across one.
Thanks everybody !
Came across a "Phillips - Raleigh Bike" with a Carlton Decal on the frame (pictures in my gallery)
Seller says its from the 80's and has replaced some original parts.
I dont know if the images are good enough. I'm looking for a medium-range route Bike (hopefully european Made) for casual rides and this one is offered for 150 USD.
Do you think its worth the price? What would be your recomendations on what to look for?
My main concern is for it to hace gears and a frame as light as possible (I live on a Hill and own a quite heavy single speed).
I hope to learn some tips to be able to discern nice frames myself when I come across one.
Thanks everybody !
11-19-23, 05:50 PM
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11-19-23, 06:22 PM
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I had a Phillips when I was a kid in England in the 1960s. It was a fairly low end bike but I liked it at the time. My understanding is that Raleigh bought Phillips and kept producing them as their low end line. That one has had the brakes, shifters and derailleurs replaced with more modern components which are a rather odd mismatch to the frame. The old parts don't look in good condition...the spokes appear to be rusty and the rims are highly tarnished and perhaps made of steel (not a good thing). Oddly, one of the photos shows downtube shifters but the other photos show those to be gone and replaced with modern brifters (combo brake/shift levers). Nevertheless it is a serviceable bike but I certainly wouldn't pay $150 for it. Maybe $50.
Last edited by davester; 11-19-23 at 06:26 PM.
11-19-23, 06:45 PM
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I had a Phillips when I was a kid in England in the 1960s. It was a fairly low end bike but I liked it at the time. My understanding is that Raleigh bought Phillips and kept producing them as their low end line. That one has had the brakes, shifters and derailleurs replaced with more modern components which are a rather odd mismatch to the frame. The old parts don't look in good condition...the spokes appear to be rusty and the rims are highly tarnished and perhaps made of steel (not a good thing). Oddly, one of the photos shows downtube shifters but the other photos show those to be gone and replaced with modern brifters (combo brake/shift levers). Nevertheless it is a serviceable bike but I certainly wouldn't pay $150 for it. Maybe $50.
Thank you for your reply!
Good observation, the seller mentioned having those parts replaced and offered to deliver the originals.
Nevertheless, I will listen to your advice and keep looking. I should be able to, either pay way less for a similar Bike, or get a better one for that price.
Will be happy to get any tips (or a link to an existing thread) on how to train my eyes to become a better ad-filter.
Thanks again !
11-19-23, 08:01 PM
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11-20-23, 02:17 PM
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11-20-23, 02:58 PM
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It also muddies the waters when trying to identify the Phillips. They are usually rebranded Raleigh clones but your example is unrecognizeable to me. It could be a Grand Prix with a flat fork crown..
11-20-23, 08:08 PM
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Looks like a Gran(d) Prix but not intended for the USA market. The frame is plain 1020 low carbon steel. A nicer steel frame would be made of cro-mo steel. Mid range frames often had cromo main tubes mixed with carbon steel stays. The high end steel frames would be all cromo throughout and double butted as well.
The bike in the photos has replaced wheels, rear derailleur, shifter/brake levers, brakes. seat. Even though it has a Carlton decal on it, I doubt it was made in the Carlton factory. One difference is it has brazed on pump pegs not provided on the USA market Raleigh 10 speed bikes.
I sold Raleighs from 1972 to ~1980 so I'm very familiar with the USA versions. This particular bike would be easily worth $150 in the USA because it's not like the rest. A USA market Raleigh (Record, Grand Prix, Sprite) in the USA $100 or less depending on condition and location. The oem tires were abominations. Tall skinny ribs that would flop over and squirm like crazy making cornering a real adventure. We replaced so many tires on them. Raleigh had different catalogs for different countries with different model names and paint jobs.
The Gran(d) Prix models were manufactured in many factories. Nottingham England, Ireland, The Netherlands, Canada, USA, Japan. The first letter of the serial number should identify the country. There were few subtle differences between the factories. Big sellers in the 1970s. One step up from the entry level Record and quite a bit better equipped for not much more $$. The Raleigh branded Suntour & SR parts started in 1978 or so.
Raleigh vs Phillips. Phillips was one of the larger of hundreds of bike manufacturers in the UK before merger mania took over. Tubes Investments bought Phillips and Raleigh with the TI Phillips production transferred to the Raleigh factory. Same for Robin Hood, Hercules, and several other companies. Carlton was a separate company that made higher end road bikes that TI bought to expand their products beyond 3 speed "English Racer" bikes.
The bike in the photos has replaced wheels, rear derailleur, shifter/brake levers, brakes. seat. Even though it has a Carlton decal on it, I doubt it was made in the Carlton factory. One difference is it has brazed on pump pegs not provided on the USA market Raleigh 10 speed bikes.
I sold Raleighs from 1972 to ~1980 so I'm very familiar with the USA versions. This particular bike would be easily worth $150 in the USA because it's not like the rest. A USA market Raleigh (Record, Grand Prix, Sprite) in the USA $100 or less depending on condition and location. The oem tires were abominations. Tall skinny ribs that would flop over and squirm like crazy making cornering a real adventure. We replaced so many tires on them. Raleigh had different catalogs for different countries with different model names and paint jobs.
The Gran(d) Prix models were manufactured in many factories. Nottingham England, Ireland, The Netherlands, Canada, USA, Japan. The first letter of the serial number should identify the country. There were few subtle differences between the factories. Big sellers in the 1970s. One step up from the entry level Record and quite a bit better equipped for not much more $$. The Raleigh branded Suntour & SR parts started in 1978 or so.
Raleigh vs Phillips. Phillips was one of the larger of hundreds of bike manufacturers in the UK before merger mania took over. Tubes Investments bought Phillips and Raleigh with the TI Phillips production transferred to the Raleigh factory. Same for Robin Hood, Hercules, and several other companies. Carlton was a separate company that made higher end road bikes that TI bought to expand their products beyond 3 speed "English Racer" bikes.
11-20-23, 09:21 PM
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The pictured bike likely weighs about 12 kg - if that helps any.
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