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Fabric casing showing on blackwall tubulars is this normal?

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Fabric casing showing on blackwall tubulars is this normal?

Old 01-23-24, 07:03 PM
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Fabric casing showing on blackwall tubulars is this normal?

I imagined black tires when i bought these Vittoria Rally tubular tires. I didnt want the gumwall.or any kind of whitewall.

So to pre stretch them i mounted these tires on my wheels without glue and inflated to 90psi.

The fabric 'casing' or 'base tape' is showing and it makes it look like a whitewall tire.

What is the difference between base tape and the casing?

Are these tires (23s) too wide for these wheels? Is this just the way it is? What must i do to have actual all black sidewall tubulars?

Thanks.




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Old 01-23-24, 08:03 PM
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A black marking pen might do the trick.
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Old 01-23-24, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
What is the difference between base tape and the casing?
The base tape covers the join.



Originally Posted by BikePower
Are these tires (23s) too wide for these wheels?.
Nope.

Originally Posted by BikePower
Is this just the way it is?
Pretty much.

Originally Posted by BikePower
What must i do to have actual all black sidewall tubulars?
See post #2.

There may be some all black tubular tyres, you can do the research but the Maxxis Velocita MS are all black.

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Old 01-23-24, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by P!N20
The base tape covers the join.





Nope.



Pretty much.



See post #2.

There may be some all black tubular tyres, you can do the research but the Maxxis Velocita MS are all black.
ok so what is showing in the picture

the casing or the base tape? The black rubber tread. The black fabric is the casing, and the white fabric is the base tape? Is that correct?
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Old 01-23-24, 09:05 PM
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Look fine to me... But then again, I am trying to remember using Vitoria Tubulars 50 years ago. With a grain of salt and a pinch over the shoulder these look fine...

I understand your concern...
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Old 01-23-24, 09:06 PM
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Correct. Vittoria is using nice, wide, sturdy, even base tape these days.
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Old 01-23-24, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
What is the difference between base tape and the casing?
The base tape is a layer of cloth between the stitching that closes the casing and the rim. The casing is the material that is stitched around the inner tube, and to which the tread is applied. The base tape is glued to the casing when the tire is manufactured (or repaired), then glued to the rim when the tire is installed.
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Old 01-23-24, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
The base tape is a layer of cloth between the stitching that closes the casing and the rim. The casing is the material that is stitched around the inner tube, and to which the tread is applied. The base tape is glued to the casing when the tire is manufactured (or repaired), then glued to the rim when the tire is installed.
why dont they use black fabric for the tape on the blackwalls instead of white? I mean.its a blackwall you would think they would make the tape black too since its part of the sidewall thats showing. How can.i color? Marking pen, paint marking pen, spray paint, artists paint brush and what kind of paint? Exterior Latex?, fabric paint from crafts store? Rustoleum enael? Testors enamel platic model paint? Fabric dye? Is it cotton or ?


Heres how they are advertised. I mean thats not even a tubular rim is it? Look how deep the wheels are. Mine are really shallow. I can see how glue would secure the tires on those wheels. Its harder to trust glue on my shallow wheels.

Heres how they actually are in real life on my shallow Arayas

My shallow Arayas.

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Old 01-23-24, 10:27 PM
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Concur and its like a dork wearing a fine tailored suit and half laced ultra white atheletic shoes.

Base tape is all cotton.

Vittoria better tubulars CX in black sidewall are the same. The German made Continental Sprint tubular in black sidewall is not as noticeable for that width.

Its been awhile since having, but think the Tufo tubular in black has a dark tone base tape.

I'm not stating what you could do to change the appearance, though if it really bothers perhaps complain directly to Vittoria and include pics.
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Old 01-23-24, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
The black fabric is the casing, and the white fabric is the base tape? Is that correct?
Correct.
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Old 01-23-24, 10:49 PM
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Ok... So as I remember Vitoria tubulars were Black and White. The white being the Base Tape. Then when your White Base Tape was getting kinda cruddy, muddy, worn, and ugly, it was time to replace um if ya wanted a nice looking pair of shoes for your baby.

Baby needs a new pair of shoes... Yep... Black and White is just fine!

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Old 01-24-24, 01:53 AM
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FWIW, those of us who rode tubulars back when they were the only choice for high-performance bikes imprinted on light-colored sidewalls. For decades, if you saw a bicycle with all-black tires, you knew it was from Sears, Montgomery Wards, Western Auto, etc.---the cheapest of the cheap. I still involuntarily wince at the sight of an otherwise high-end-looking bike with all-black tires.

Irrelevant, of course, except that it might explain why it seems that all-black tubulars are uncommon: in the U.S., anyway, most of the comparatively few cyclists riding tubulars these days are probably in their 50's or older and want their bikes to look the way they did when they were new.
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Old 01-24-24, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
How can.i color? Marking pen, paint marking pen, spray paint, artists paint brush and what kind of paint? Exterior Latex?, fabric paint from crafts store? Rustoleum enael? Testors enamel platic model paint? Fabric dye? Is it cotton or ?
Post No. 2 has been mentioned before, but I'll repeat it: A black pen like a sharpie will do fine. You really don't need to overthink this.

Originally Posted by BikePower
Look how deep the wheels are. Mine are really shallow. I can see how glue would secure the tires on those wheels. Its harder to trust glue on my shallow wheels.
Do you think there's more surface area for the glue to adhere to if the rims are the same width, but deeper?
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Old 01-24-24, 07:38 AM
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Modern tubular rims are wider than vintage tubular rims. The same is generally true for modern tubular tires. When your Nashbar was sold, it probably had 19-20mm wide tires and the base tape is not as wide.

I have 25mm skin-wall Rallys mounted on Roval wheels (which I assume are from the early '90s). The Roval rims are a bit wider (maybe 2-3mm) than vintage Faimme (1970s) rims I'm running on another bike. Look closely and you can see the base tape shows, but not as much as it does on your Ayara rims.

I recently mounted NOS vintage Clement tires which are about 18-19mm wide to late 1980s rims. Even the Clements show a little bit of the base tape.
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Old 01-24-24, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
why dont they use black fabric for the tape on the blackwalls instead of white?
Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 are all black.

And I believe I once had a set of Barums also.
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Old 01-24-24, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
FWIW, those of us who rode tubulars back when they were the only choice for high-performance bikes imprinted on light-colored sidewalls. For decades, if you saw a bicycle with all-black tires, you knew it was from Sears, Montgomery Wards, Western Auto, etc.---the cheapest of the cheap. I still involuntarily wince at the sight of an otherwise high-end-looking bike with all-black tires.

Irrelevant, of course, except that it might explain why it seems that all-black tubulars are uncommon: in the U.S., anyway, most of the comparatively few cyclists riding tubulars these days are probably in their 50's or older and want their bikes to look the way they did when they were new.
great insight! Thanks. Its true we all want to go back.in time and be young again (stay young)
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Old 01-24-24, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Post No. 2 has been mentioned before, but I'll repeat it: A black pen like a sharpie will do fine. You really don't need to overthink this.

Do you think there's more surface area for the glue to adhere to if the rims are the same width, but deeper?
i would think so by definitiin yes. all of the tape that is showing on my shallow rims would be glued and adhering to the sides of the deep rim. Plus mechanically there is a deeper lip supporting the tire against lateral forces.
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Old 01-24-24, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Modern tubular rims are wider than vintage tubular rims. The same is generally true for modern tubular tires. When your Nashbar was sold, it probably had 19-20mm wide tires and the base tape is not as wide.

I have 25mm skin-wall Rallys mounted on Roval wheels (which I assume are from the early '90s). The Roval rims are a bit wider (maybe 2-3mm) than vintage Faimme (1970s) rims I'm running on another bike. Look closely and you can see the base tape shows, but not as much as it does on your Ayara rims.

I recently mounted NOS vintage Clement tires which are about 18-19mm wide to late 1980s rims. Even the Clements show a little bit of the base tape.
yes i see what you mean and with the gum walls its not noticeable. This is all making sense now. The blackwalls are really only all black on modern deeper wider rims because blackwalls are for modern culture on modern bikes. Vintage bike culture prefers gumwalls, frowns on blackwalls, has narrower shallower wheels and so the tape of the modern wider tires shows significantly since it contrasts with the black casing.
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Old 01-24-24, 09:17 AM
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I agree with what was said above, my first “10-speed” bike was a Sears-Puch gas pipe department store special. Plain Jane black walled tires that I swapped out for Schwinn gum wall Puff high pressures as soon as seeing other kids with higher end bikes.

No real advantage to the yellow walled tires, but they had a mental advantage the 14-15 year old kid accepted readily.

Over a year later, I had the opportunity to buy a Bottecchia Special, chosen over the base model De Luxe, because it had gum wall clinchers, and the magical Campagnolo decal for its front and rear Valentino mechs. I was in Euro heaven.

Fortunately for me, the kindly head Schwinn mechanic where I purchased the Botty took time to explain to me why lacing up tubular type rims and putting on Clement tubs was not the best idea for a neophyte kid just getting into cycling. My dad was with us, smiling as the gentleman patiently went through every aspect of what was needed, what I would have to do to ride the tubs, and total cost that entailed. (An astronomical $50.00, in 1972🫣, not including the cost of three Clement tubular tires.)

It was 1979 when I took the plunge and began riding tubulars. I enjoy them to this day, but I am finishing up a 71 Schwinn Super Sport, and the Puff knock off Kenda gum wall clinchers are on it. The two Italians with tubulars with skin wall Rally tires mounted to the skinny GP-4 alloy rims will still be ridden and enjoyed, but my inner 15 year old that also purchased a Schwinn Continental, looks forward to the 27X1-1/4” Puff like hours that are upcoming.

I wouldn’t sweat the base tape showing, but that’s personal choice. Enjoy what you chose and just keep pedaling.

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Old 01-24-24, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by oneclick
Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 are all black.

And I believe I once had a set of Barums also.
thank you!
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Old 01-24-24, 02:33 PM
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BikePower

Do both sides look like this? you should have an eqial ammount of base tape showing on both side.

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Old 01-24-24, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BikePower
i would think so by definitiin yes. all of the tape that is showing on my shallow rims would be glued and adhering to the sides of the deep rim. Plus mechanically there is a deeper lip supporting the tire against lateral forces.
I doubt the surface of the deeper rim where the tire is glued on is itself deeper. The outer surface of the rim should conform to the shape of the tire, not the depth of the rim itself.

Your tire is perfectly sized for your rim. You'll be fine. Again--no need to overthink it.

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Old 01-24-24, 03:08 PM
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You don't see, or shouldn't be looking, the base tape when riding...
If you are that fussy, like others have said, a magic marker is your friend.
That nice, wide, thick base layer is very comforting to me and likely all riders of sewups.
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Old 01-24-24, 03:37 PM
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Old 01-24-24, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
BikePower

Do both sides look like this? you should have an eqial ammount of base tape showing on both side.

yes they are equal
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