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Help identify this 70’s lugged frame?!
Hello,
I was hoping someone could help me identify this “seemingly 70’s” nervex-lugged steel frame that o recently picked up from marketplace. the marketplace ad did not have great photos, but I was able to recognize the Campagnolo bits as well as the nervex lugs. the owner stated her husband used to race back in the day (should have asked what decade) and he was from white plains, NY. here’s some details that photos don’t show: appears To be an “E” stamped in the head tube. No other stamps on the drops outs or the BB shell. Campy Nuovo Record RD has a 1973 patent stamp. any ideas or things to look for? Is a frame in this condition worth saving? If so, how? https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...501d597d4.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49f58f5ad.jpeg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f123e936.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b051cf232.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b81a653aa.jpeg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...433ff9ef4.jpeg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e6a705f53.jpeg |
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Peugeot PX-10E check south end of steerer for possible presence of hardwood plug (t'was in residence ex-works) ----- |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23296631)
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Peugeot PX-10E check south end of steerer for possible presence of hardwood plug (t'was in residence ex-works) ----- |
Looks like they sawed off the rear derailleur mount. Also, there are no eyelets on the front dropouts, maybe they were sawed off too. The fork has a Nervex fork crown, which the PX-10 used. Good quality frame, all it needs is a little TLC!
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Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23296631)
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Peugeot PX-10E check south end of steerer for possible presence of hardwood plug (t'was in residence ex-works) ----- |
When you ask if it is worth saving, I would respond yes with a few cautions. A good Powder-coating shop like Pro-Kote Indy would do a bead blast to remove the rust and get it clean enough to coat. The whole process is about $225 and it would be all new again. But your budget may not like that price! If you decide to do something like that with it you will have a great ride that performs rather well under you. Smiles, MH
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That head tube looks funny.
The top and bottom reinforcing rings at the cup sockets look to have flats on the sides. They should be round all around. I wonder if the head tube - alone, fork and cups removed - was gripped in a vice and squeezed. To untwist a frame? The brazing looks to have gaps as well. |
Here is a PX10 that I restored years ago...
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...58770b77bf.jpg I have owned and rebuilt two others and all three sported the Simplex rear drop outs. Perhaps it is the vintage or picture quality, but I don't see the name on the OP's frame... https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6c77f15c15.jpg |
They don't all have SIMPLEX on the gusset in a recessed portion (or even there at all), there was a variation with the letters just raised above the surface - and in the close-up below I think you can just see the S hiding under the mech cable housing, the remainder of the logo being rusted away, is covered by muck, or was badly forged to start with:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7be69584e1.jpg |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23296631)
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Peugeot PX-10E check south end of steerer for possible presence of hardwood plug (t'was in residence ex-works) ----- thanks for the reply. Not sure what you mean by hardwood plug, though. Like u see the steerer tube? and what else makes you say PX-10E? or doesn’t have Simplex dropout stamps |
Originally Posted by Mad Honk
(Post 23296754)
When you ask if it is worth saving, I would respond yes with a few cautions. A good Powder-coating shop like Pro-Kote Indy would do a bead blast to remove the rust and get it clean enough to coat. The whole process is about $225 and it would be all new again. But your budget may not like that price! If you decide to do something like that with it you will have a great ride that performs rather well under you. Smiles, MH
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Originally Posted by oneclick
(Post 23297227)
They don't all have SIMPLEX on the gusset in a recessed portion (or even there at all), there was a variation with the letters just raised above the surface - and in the close-up below I think you can just see the S hiding under the mech cable housing, the remainder of the logo being rusted away, is covered by muck, or was badly forged to start with:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7be69584e1.jpg |
Originally Posted by dpicare26
(Post 23298273)
yea I’m not seeing any inkling of a simplex stamp. Also the drop doesn’t appear hacked off, to me?
Originally Posted by dpicare26
(Post 23298271)
I’m not sure I am in a position to go that route for the frame. So insure where I’ll go at this point. Would I risk damaging it if I just have it a good thrice over with some steel wool? I’ve never worked on a frame in such condition before.
EDIT: I've just peered at the rear dropouts on the OP's first photo above, and it appears that the non drive side dropout has the same shape as the drive side dropout. In other words, it has the same abrupt transition from curved to flat. Let's see some better pics. Also, is there any sign of chrome on the front fork? |
Originally Posted by Aubergine
(Post 23298343)
The reason we think it has been hacked off is that the old Simplex derailleur hangers were not compatible with other derailleur brands such as the Campy on your bike. People thus cut them off and used a bolt on ("claw") derailleur hanger. Also, behind the claw you can see the abrupt change on the frame's dropout from rounded at the rear to flat at the bottom.
Both steel wool and a derusting agent (a mild acid) will clean that frame without damaging it. EDIT: I've just peered at the rear dropouts on the OP's first photo above, and it appears that the non drive side dropout has the same shape as the drive side dropout. In other words, it has the same abrupt transition from curved to flat. Let's see some better pics. Also, is there any sign of chrome on the front fork? yea appeared to have chrome socks on the fork. |
Thanks. I still think the drive side was cut off.
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Originally Posted by Aubergine
(Post 23298473)
Thanks. I still think the drive side was cut off.
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Originally Posted by Aubergine
(Post 23298473)
Thanks. I still think the drive side was cut off.
what other identifiers are you using? |
Originally Posted by dpicare26
(Post 23299772)
ok, thank you. Do you also believe it to be a Puegeot PX-10E?
what other identifiers are you using? |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23296631)
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Peugeot PX-10E check south end of steerer for possible presence of hardwood plug (t'was in residence ex-works) ----- the bottom bracket was English threaded, however.. (loosened counter clockwise) https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1aa5f23c5.jpeg |
the bottom bracket was English threaded, however.. (loosened counter clockwise)
CCW to loosen which cup? If both then that's regular RH threading to both cups and indicates a FR (or Italian but that's not gonna happen) BB. If you meant the NDS cup then CCW to unscrew is an indication of ANY threading: they ALL unscrew CCW. If the DS cup it should require CLOCKWISE turning to unscrew the LH threaded cup for a British (or Swiss) BB If you have both cups removed then TEST the BB shell with a known BSC (British) BB unit, but depending on brand there could also be markings on the cups which tell you what threading is used |
Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 23304717)
the bottom bracket was English threaded, however.. (loosened counter clockwise)
CCW to loosen which cup? If both then that's regular RH threading to both cups and indicates a FR (or Italian but that's not gonna happen) BB. If you meant the NDS cup then CCW to unscrew is an indication of ANY threading: they ALL unscrew CCW. If the DS cup it should require CLOCKWISE turning to unscrew the LH threaded cup for a British (or Swiss) BB If you have both cups removed then TEST the BB shell with a known BSC (British) BB unit, but depending on brand there could also be markings on the cups which tell you what threading is used |
Originally Posted by dpicare26
(Post 23305048)
both cups loosened CCW.
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 23305106)
Then I think 99% certain this is a FR BB with RH threading on both cups, but if not marked then you could test with a BB unit or cups of known threading
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Originally Posted by dpicare26
(Post 23298273)
yea I’m not seeing any inkling of a simplex stamp. Also the drop doesn’t appear hacked off, to me?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1920f121a.jpg |
Originally Posted by oneclick
(Post 23305762)
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