I just picked up this 1967-ish Carlton Catalina. Looks like it was well loved at one time, with significant updates in the 70s.








The photo and patches are allegedly the original owner. Anybody from Kalamazoo recognize the guy?

Anybody have thoughts on whether this copper color would be likely to have iron oxide in it, making it more susceptible to fading from oxalic acid?

Looks like a bike with a lot of good history.

Don't often see tubulars and a Pletscher rack on the same bike, although I suppose it was more common before good wire-bead tires were widely available. Also an interesting combination of 531 main tubes and stamped dropouts with no hanger. I suppose they spent money where it counted and saved elsewhere to hit the price point.

Are the original grips Grab-On brand? If so, see if you can get them off without damage.

Earlier this week while looking for something else I found my LAW national century patches from 1980-1981. Note that September isn't the optimum month for a century ride in central Arizona, but the rules said it had to be that month, so I look back at an added challenge overcome.

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excellent find!

slightly surprised to see the anniversary headplate in use at this time

trying to recall who made these white nylon pump pegs; were they a Cyclo item?

were sprints stock on this model at this time?


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The surface of the grips is significantly eroded and they don't seem as dense as the original grab-ons.

My initial google run turned up a serial number list that said Carlton dropout serial numbers starting with U were from 1967. After poking around some more on this site and elsewhere, the bike appears to have more characteristics of the 63-65 period rather than 67. Raleigh models were a mess during this time period, but by 1967 they were mainly selling the Catalina through Huffy in the U.S. with different lugs.

I assume the tubing sticker is some version of 531 main tubes, but it's pretty faded and I don't recognize it. Catalinas were made in numerous versions, some with non-531 tubes. Edit: looking more closely I'm pretty sure it says 531 in the background, and also says "butted," which most Catalinas were not.

The only date code I found so far was 65 on the saddle. The saddle is in very rough shape but fortunately I just bought a nice Wrights saddle from Mad Honk that is from the general time period.

The cranks are not original, but they're pretty sweet so I'll probably keep them. I like the touring range rings. I think I'll restore consistent with the original owner's late 1970s version of the bike, keeping the Suntour derailleurs and the extensive patina (perhaps with clear coat on top if I get it cleaned up enough).

This restoration will take some time and this bike is not necessarily at the front of the queue. I will update the thread as appropriate. Any thoughts on dating would be appreciated, especially if they lean toward a 1963 date. That was my birth year and would be somewhat of an excuse when my wife finds out I bought two more bikes within a week.

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head tube exhibits areas of lighter and darker colour

does it look to you like this could be due to fading or more due to original application?

would appreciate view of head lugs feature cut if convenient some time

perhaps a good story regarding how the MAFAC cable anchor found its way onto the front

had been thinking the Normandy Sport front hub might be original; that older pattern of Juy QR was last current in 1971; however, if cycle earlier than '67 it would be too early for the oval flange holes

great to see the Ventoux on there, one o' me fave bends

three-tube butted 531 frames not that common in Britain, more frequently encountered in France and the low countries


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I think the darker areas are dirty, but we will see when I get to cleaning it up. This seems to be the same luminous metallic copper paint that was most common for Carlton Catalinas of the mid 60s.

I'll try to post lug photos tomorrow.

The skewer in the front wheel is certainly older than the rear wheel, but I think the hubs match. Not sure if they are original or an upgrade. Does anybody know if Dunlop Sprites (the tires shown in the mid 60s Carlton catalog) were tubular? Internet search engines have certainly gotten worse in the last 10 years - any search containing sprite and dunlop mostly yields results about Raleigh Sprites.

Your seat tube tubing decal is one that, according to HLloyd (decals supplier) was used from 1953 to 1973.

From HLloydCycles.com catalog, Reynolds tubing decals

The "butted frame tubes" means only that the frame main triangle is 531 butted (the seat tube probably single butted -- no butt at the top if a 27.2 mm seat post fits). It probably means that the rear chain and seat stays are not R531, but doesn't mean that the fork blades are not -- I have a 1972 Raleigh Competition with exactly that seat tube decal, but the fork blades also have the triangular "531 forks" decals. Check your fork blades carefully for (probably shinier) regions near the tops, where such decals would have been before they fell off -- I have at least one other frame exhibiting that state of "patina".

Edit: As @juvela has pointed out, the headbadge is an "anniversary" type, but that was apparently used for several years, mid-to-late-60s through 1970 at least. I have no idea what the anniversary was that this headbadge was supposed to celebrate. Per Wikipedia, Raleigh started business in the mid-1880s, and was taken over by Frank Bowden in 1888 or so, becoming a limited liability corporation in 1889.

Anyway, I wouldn't sweat the tubing issue -- for instance, my aforementioned Raleigh Competition is actually a bit lighter than a same-size International model frame a couple years newer, with R531 frame tubes, forks and stays. I weigh frames stripped down to whatever isn't threaded on, and it seems to me that 3 kg (or just a bit more for frames in the 60-62 cm ctt range that I favor) is kind of the break point in "quality" vs "downmarket" -- of course along with build quality which is usually more obvious. Raleigh itself has a (generally) fairly poor reputation, throughout its product line, than Carlton did, and most of their product line that is valued today came from the Carlton business that they absorbed. You have an example that, from photos provided so far, seems to be quite nice in the build quality department, and it looks like the paint might clean up well too. Enjoy it, and the restoration experience!

I have no idea on the date of manufacture. But if it helps, I can state I'm 100% certain it's a 1963. Now you can tell your wife you have confirmation it's a 1963.

Thanks to Charles Wahl and SwimmerMike for the extremely helpful comments!

[QUOTE
Edit: As @juvela has pointed out, the headbadge is an "anniversary" type, but that was apparently used for several years, mid-to-late-60s through 1970 at least. I have no idea what the anniversary was that this headbadge was supposed to celebrate. Per Wikipedia, Raleigh started business in the mid-1880s, and was taken over by Frank Bowden in 1888 or so, becoming a limited liability corporation in 1889.[/QUOTE]

The badge is from around the time of the 75th anniversary and was first used in 1962, sporadically on some of the Grand Sports and Sprites. I’ve often heard “Anniversary” but it’s not actually referenced as such in the ad I’ve placed below. From 63 until 67 the Raleigh Carlton was produced alongside the Catalina and both occasionally sported the badge. I’ve no idea why Raleigh wasn’t consistent about this but all of the models I’ve listed so far can be found with standard Herons or Anniversary style badges. Beginning in 1968 the badge was finally used more consistently on all road models from the lowest Record on up to the top of the catalog.

albrt -

perchance am missing something here but doona see how hubs could be a pair

front be clearly a Normandy Sport of the "G2" type - i.e., oval flange holes

in this closeup image of the serial posted earlier we can see that the rear hub's flange

be stepped/relieved such that the area of the spoke holes is thicker in wall than that of flange wall immediately below


the presence of this feature rules out the possibility of a Normandy Sport model rear hub

me guess, and its only a wylde guess, would be that the rear hub is of asian origin, this would fit in with its Shimano branded QR skewer

if front & rear rims & spokes are a match then wheels were likely constructed at the same time

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Is it a Carlton or a Raleigh? This is the problem that has confounded me ever since this Carlton with a Raleigh head badge, came my way. Chances are this one is a project that I may never get to. Too many other projects have come my way this summer. At the moment, I am up to 20 bikes, most of which were given to me for free, including this Carlton (did not get the Carlton recently). I have everything for the bike, including the wheels complete with Weinmann alloy rims (don't see them often)...









My guess is that the Carlton was badged by Raleigh when Raleigh bought Carlton out. That is just a guess...

It's both! Carlton was building the frames for Raleigh by this time, and if the bike had been sold in the United Kingdom or mostly anywhere else except the United States it would have looked exactly the same and had a Carlton badge as well. US model Carltons were receiving Raleigh badges by around 1965-66, and some Carlton badges and downtube transfers continued to slip by on occasion, though the name was largely relegated to the small transfers on the seat tubes or fork blades by about 1971-72.

-Gregory

Juvela - you are correct about the hubs. They look superficially similar with oval flange holes that are not readily visible in the rear photo, but the rear one is badged Shimano. The rims appear to be matching Mavic.

Here are the lug photos.






On further examination, the dramatic color differences in the first set of photos are because of dappled lighting - the photos were taken under a tree.

If you haven't discovered it, this Peter Kohler article on Carlton and Raleigh is full of good stuff: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...cycles-us.html

Here's what he says about the Catalina model:

My Carlton is definitely a 1962. Interesting to compare notes. My serial number scheme ("K=1962") does not appear to match yours. Perhaps it's a Raleigh vs. Carlton thing?


All stripped down and ready to rebuild.

According to the website Carlton Cycles U.K. a serial number beginning with U should be from 1967. 1963 was L. albrt has it correct (most likely) in post #1.

https://carltoncycles.uk/

Yes, carltoncycles was the reference I originally saw, but the details of the bike are not consistent with other documentation of what was offered in 1967, and the individual examples I have seen online do not seem consistent with the table at the Carlton site. I remain open to persuasion on the date.

I have a bunch of the catalogs scanned from this period. The last year that the Catalina model was offered in the Carlton UK line was 1965. I don't have Raleigh US catalogs from 1963-66, but in 1967 the "Raleigh Carlton" was offered (and was no longer in 1968), and I've got photo documentation of another one of those that retains the Carlton downtube decal as you have here.

The fact is that especially with the low-end models, after Raleigh started having Carlton manufacture bikes with Raleigh branding, there were at least a couple of very confusing years on the production line based on the variety of frame details, transfers, color schemes, and component choices I've seen.

I would say that trusting the serial # is the best bet, but I also know that some of the earlier information (from the 1940s-50s) provided on the site used above is a bit poorly researched.

-Gregory

Not just Raleigh - this Claud Butler "Velox" had a plain 531 triangle and the fork decals:

AHA! The rear brake caliper has a 63 under the 610 on one of the arms. Rear brake calipers are well known to be the most reliable dating method for 1963 Raleigh/Carlton hybrids.

Edit - the front caliper is not a Weinmann, it has a logo I don't recognize that appears to be a JS within a circle.

Stem is stuck pretty hard. Too bad - the Hiduminium stem with the cable stop hole might be the most valuable piece on the bike. Well, aside from the seatclamp nut with the red "C" face on it.

Seatpost and clamp cleaned up pretty nicely (wow, these photos are cruel, it looks better in person). Raleigh certainly did make some interesting choices about where to put quality chrome (hint - usually not the frame).




I also realized I didn't include a frontal view of the head tube lugs.

List of questions in the thread that have not been addressed, in case some kind soul has an answer:

1. Does anybody have experience with bathing this copper color in oxalic acid?

2. I think I have most relevant angles of the lugs now, so do they give any aid in dating? From what I have seen they used what was on hand for the mid-range models in the mid-60s, except that the "Capella" model usually had Capella lugs (which these are not). juvela

3. Does anybody know if the Dunlop Sprite listed in the catalog was a tubular tire? Or does the term "high pressure" in the 1960s mean tubular? I'm trying to figure out if the tubular rims and the front Normandy hub were likely to be original equipment. If they are, then the oval high flanges place the bike toward the end of the likely date range.