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Name that frame
O/K all you Kats and Kitties,
It’s time to play NAME THAT FRAME The bike exchange has been getting some great donations lately of vintage/antique Italian race bikes, including a Lygie, Debernardi, Olmo, and an Italian built Lotus Legend Compe which I just finished. Yesterday, when I went in to see if anything new had arrived, I spotted 2 bikes, both sporting Campi Nuovo Record derailleurs. The one I am particularly interested in is in the pictures below. There are no decals to indicate the make and model. I am hoping that the wisdom of the hive mind can possibly use the clues provided to come up with a solid Id so I can do a proper resto with decals. Mystery bike as pictured wt. 24.62 lb Size 56cm c\c Serial no. (0n metal tag riveted to bb. - 1785256 Frame tubes – 28mm o/d Front of head tube stamped – I 3 Frame, stripped except drive side bb cup - 4.6 lb Rear dropouts - Simplex Handle bars and stem - Chinelli Brakes and levers – Campi Front and rear derailleurs – Campi Shift levers, cable guides, pump bracket, seat post binder bolt – Campi Seat post Simplex – 26-27 mm o/d Rims 27” on Phil hubs w/campi straight skewers https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...796ba68ba2.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e012169707.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aef8e218a3.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89f44155de.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a37fbd96d0.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d14fdde19.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...451d776556.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6200cd2cbd.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac50782367.jpg |
AND MORE PICS
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d9c1e90d5.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c77ca06014.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3528388771.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d2511d46f8.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...48c78b4f71.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b5889f3666.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e033c4bc58.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...58f219480f.jpg If you all do a great job id'ing this bike I will show you pics of the other one the same P/O donated. Now, Get to work !!! |
Peugeot? Haven’t noticed any that have the design on top of the fork crown.
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looks to be a '73 PX-10 they returned to scrolly NERVEX Professional for one year in '73, afterwhich it was gone forever we can see that hardwood plug yet in place at south end of steerer gear hanger should show evidence of modification for fitment of Campag mech if ever licensed in California seat lug should show a marking indicating specific municipality a six pointed star for example would indicate Berkeley and a mushroom shape would indicate Oakland (intended to represent an oak tree) ----- |
Originally Posted by capnjonny
(Post 23379000)
AND MORE PICS
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3528388771.jpg If you all do a great job id'ing this bike I will show you pics of the other one the same P/O donated. Now, Get to work !!! That serial no plate is very similar to my 70s PX10 Yours has much nicer Nervex lugs though . :-) And is quite a bit earlier ? |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23379016)
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looks to be a '73 PX-10 they returned to scrolly NERVEX Professional for one year in '73, afterwhich it was gone forever we can see that hardwood plug yet in place at south end of steerer gear hanger should show evidence of modification for fitment of Campag mech if ever licensed in California seat lug should show a marking indicating specific municipality ----- Possibly earlier ? I dont recall seeing a 70s one with that hook on the NDS dropout HAppy to be corrected / educated . :) If it was this side of the world I would be all over it ! Ho hum |
Originally Posted by 1simplexnut
(Post 23379021)
Hi Juvela ,
Possibly earlier ? I dont recall seeing a 70s one with that hook on the NDS dropout HAppy to be corrected / educated . :) If it was this side of the world I would be all over it ! Ho hum Correct! Looking at dropouts of assembled cycle thought they might be the unique transitional ones employed only in '73 my error, i make lots of 'em :o cannot be a '72 as that was a smooth lug year and a unique dropout year possible chain stay stop may be a helpful clue recall them employing a stamped sheet one from NERVEX which has a ferrule to guide the casing aft of the stop itself purchased a PX new in 1970 and that is how recall the chain stay stop looking this might be something only employed one year or it may have been pressed into service due to a shortage of the regular model ----- |
I am thinking 1970-71 PX-10E because (a) the more relaxed angles, (b) the serial number plate, (c) the prong on the left rear dropout and (d) the serial number plate. The plate came in c.1970 - I had a transitional frameset from then with evidence of having had a plate, as well as holes in the head tube for a head badge, but there was a factory decal there instead.
Every Nervex Pro lugged Peugeot PX-10 I have seen built after 1972 (the year of the Nervex DuBois lugs) had steeper angles AND a serial number stamped directly into the BB shell underside - and it always looks a little uneven and done by hand. I've wondered about that for 20 years now, and no one has ever advanced a theory as to how or why that is. |
The fork crown, the Simplex seat post, and everything else except the rear dropouts match the 1974 PX-10E I had. Even the white paint seen on the steerer tube. Look for evidence that the lugs are black under that paint.
The dropout in the photo is modified much the same way I did mine, although I used a Cyclone not an NR. The Cinelli stem is newer than the frame. My guess is that it is sanded down to fit the French steerer tube. Is that a shim under the NR front derailler clamp? I used a piece of 360 grit wet/dry paper to get my Cyclone to clamp. oldschoolbike. |
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cycle as found is a tribute to what was going on in the U.S. bike boom of the early seventies shoppers "wanted" one of the Campag NR kitted machines which began at two fifty in 1970 a PX was was one sixty-five enthusiasts would buy them and then as soon as possible commence the process of Campification usually folks would begin with the front mech to get rid of the Delrin Juy pushrod thingus they would have a mental "Christmas list" of the fittings they wished to purchase for the machine and an order in which they would acquire them a piecemeal means of getting a "full Campy" cycle the owner of this one appears to have pretty much finished; most owners stopped somewhere in the middle as their funds/interest lagged ----- |
Originally Posted by oldschoolbike
(Post 23379172)
The Cinelli stem is newer than the frame. My guess is that it is sanded down to fit the French steerer tube.
oldschoolbike. |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23379218)
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cycle as found is a tribute to what was going on in the U.S. bike boom of the early seventies shoppers "wanted" one of the Campag NR kitted machines which began at two fifty in 1970 a PX was was one sixty-five enthusiasts would buy them and then as soon as possible commence the process of Campification usually folks would begin with the front mech to get rid of the Delrin Juy pushrod thingus they would have a mental "Christmas list" of the fittings they wished to purchase for the machine and an order in which they would acquire them a piecemeal means of getting a "full Campy" cycle the owner of this one appears to have pretty much finished; most owners stopped somewhere in the middle as their funds/interest lagged ----- From what I remember, the Frejus and Atala (Campy Record, Universal brakes) were about $140, the Legnano (also Campy Record and Universal brakes) about $160, and the PX-10 about $120; maybe $130. All were bought from the Bicycle Center, located one block from Yale. Looking back, it must have been an unusual shop at the time, what with keeping so many brands of European high-end racing bikes in stock. They also carried Raleigh and Schwinn bikes. I was shocked when a girl I knew from high school brought in a Schwinn Paramount for repair while I was hanging around. $175! I figured her parents must have been millionaires. |
Wowser!!!
You peeps are awsome! I was with you on the approximate date and thinking it might be french. The Campi gear was what threw me. I am going to use 1971 as the year of mfg. for decal purposes. Since I will be doing a full resto with the intent to sell should I restore it to the original running gear" I have a boxe full of mafac brakes, simplex derailleurs and french stems, as well as a few TA and Stronglight cranks. What color would be the best for resale? Also, what wheels and hubs? 700c or 27"? |
Originally Posted by capnjonny
(Post 23379542)
Wowser!!!
You peeps are awsome! I was with you on the approximate date and thinking it might be french. The Campi gear was what threw me. I am going to use 1971 as the year of mfg. for decal purposes. Since I will be doing a full resto with the intent to sell should I restore it to the original running gear" I have a boxe full of mafac brakes, simplex derailleurs and french stems, as well as a few TA and Stronglight cranks. What color would be the best for resale? Also, what wheels and hubs? 700c or 27"? White is the classic color but you could do a retro blue/yellow to invoke the earlier years for fun. |
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kitting for mcmlxxi - chainset: 93 headset: V4 - you have already saddle pillar: Simplex w/emblem pedals: Lyotard 45CA, Christophe clips & Lapize straps hubs: Normandy Luxe Competition large flange thirty-six hole with foil labels skewers: Juy with lever covers and black plastic nuts rims: MAVIC Montlhery stem/bar set: AVA brakes: MAFAC Racer gear ensemble: Juy Criterium tyres: Hutchinson 280 gram cotton spokes: Robergel Trois Etoiles light gauge butted drive chain: SEDIS ----- |
Originally Posted by capnjonny
(Post 23379542)
Since I will be doing a full resto with the intent to sell should I restore it to the original running gear" I have a boxe full of mafac brakes,
simplex derailleurs and french stems, as well as a few TA and Stronglight cranks. What color would be the best for resale? Also, what wheels and hubs? 700c or 27"? |
O/K
Since you all were sooooo helpful in I.D ing the px10 here is the other bike the P/O donated to us at the same time. Campi fr/ rear ders, campi head set, campi hubs, campi shifters, campi pedals, Weinman brakesfront, universal rear , Ideale saddle, campi seat post https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5cb6fac9bb.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2092e306e9.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bee96f9fff.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bed570190c.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d6dbbd7ac0.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e46b8eb47d.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe9376286c.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13784875ca.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...256d84afa4.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...63c4fd4532.jpg |
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lug pattern Prugnat 62/d is there a serial present? it's location and format can be a clue... image of underside of bottom bracket may be helpful suspect at least some of the braze-ons are additions ----- |
The tulip cutout on the lugs and the circle cut out of the cable guides reminds me of s\a marquee that is escaping me...
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A couple more bits of info. The seat post is 27.0 mm. o/d on the seat tube is 29mm.
The bottom bracket has the numbers 54 stamped in it. There are 2 cutouts. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af28b4a509.jpg |
Originally Posted by capnjonny
(Post 23379708)
A couple more bits of info. The seat post is 27.0 mm. o/d on the seat tube is 29mm.
The bottom bracket has the numbers 54 stamped in it. There are 2 cutouts. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af28b4a509.jpg thank you capn! :thumb: this shell view should be of assistance to our @MauriceMoss upon the occasion of his next forum visit ----- |
Update - - - -
I located the previous owner and he told me the make of the bike. Just for fun lets see how close the combined knowledge here can get to an I.D. I will reveal all in a few days. Happy hunting, Capnjonny |
Originally Posted by Trakhak
(Post 23379384)
The people I was riding with in New Haven starting in 1964 owned Frejus, Legnano, Atala, and Peugeot bikes. (I had a Helyett track bike.)
From what I remember, the Frejus and Atala (Campy Record, Universal brakes) were about $140, the Legnano (also Campy Record and Universal brakes) about $160, and the PX-10 about $120; maybe $130. All were bought from the Bicycle Center, located one block from Yale. Looking back, it must have been an unusual shop at the time, what with keeping so many brands of European high-end racing bikes in stock. They also carried Raleigh and Schwinn bikes. I was shocked when a girl I knew from high school brought in a Schwinn Paramount for repair while I was hanging around. $175! I figured her parents must have been millionaires. |
Somec?
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