Hiya Folks,
I've got a Williams C34 cottered double crankset on a 1953 Holdsworth
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It works but it has a couple of issues:
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So now I'm wondering if I should try something a bit better quality.
I've also got a hankering to go back to 52/36 rings (52/13 as top gear) or possibly even 52/32 if my rod shifter can handle it.

I've researched previously and the only really obvious candidate I can see was Stronglight 45:

Stronglight 45 "Competition"
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Stronglight 55 "Competition" or Stronglight 54 "Standard"
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1958 Stronglight catalogue:



So my question is can anybody suggest a decent cottered crank I should consider that can handle 52/36 and preferrably also 52/32 ?

The Williams C1232 is a good alternative, which will almost certainly not require a spindle change (sometimes mistakenly identified as C1200 but differentiated by greater spacing between the crank arm and the plane of the chainring.)
If you switch to a Stronglight, Magistroni, or Agrati, you will most likely need a greater diameter spindle.
Phil

The standard 110 bcd three-arm only gets down to 36.
For smaller you want a 5-pin - steel cottered ones other than Stronglight were made...

Interesting: https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/classic_components/williams-crank-and-chainring-identification/
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Stronglight apparently did metric and BSC versions - possibly marked with "A" for Anglais (not Acier).
If a Stronglight is 9/16" pedal thread then it's 3/8" spindle.

I'll check out Magistroni and Agrati.

Good point about 50.4, should make searching easier.
Already found in 50.4 cottered
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But I believe the TA cranks were avoided back in the day - too soft I think.

There was a Stronglight 45 on Ebay UK 8 days back sold for £30.
But I wasn't looking then
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205017302281

I have a Stronglight 55 with factory 9/16" pedal threads, but requires a 16mm spindle, not the narrower British standard, so exceptions exist.
Phil

Sheldon got there first: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bcd.html

The largest BCD that will support a 32 cog is about 102, it even gives the makes.

The Williams 1200 and 1232 are beautiful, but almost impossible to find online in a matching set of crank arms--I spent 6 months looking, then gave up. Even unmatched, they are extraordinarily rare. If you're going to search for something so rare, I think the Holdsworth Allez cranks would be more on theme with the bike. Alternatively you could go higher end with Chater Lea.

In my opinion the Durax Super Course cranks equally nice, easily available, and much less expensive. Don't know if they were ever available with the British spindle diameter.

How about another C34 that doesn't wobble? I have a spare Nicklin N34, rechromed, very pretty..

I know next to nothing about these, but if any are of interest I can dig deeper. I think I have a box full of loose chainrings, but would have to look for them.

I have two sets of Williams C1200, one of them on my Rotrax, the other on my Gillott. Both came from the UK via ebay, but neither set was really expensive. Including shipping, I paid less than $150USD for both. I will agree they are uncommon but I wouldn't say particularly rare. I think I know where three other sets are locally here in Philly.
The 5 pin Durax suggestion is a good one, for a set of gorgeous cranks.

Phil

Pretty sure I have another one of these in my stash. Not as good condition cosmetically. I also have other cottered crank sets from Holdsworth, Raleigh, Falcon and probably Peugeot...



The actual crank was fitted to this frame/fork damaged Legnano Gran Premio....

Hmmm, lots of research to do.

It's fairly clear that the 3 arm cranks are the best looking, but they're 116 BCD so 36 cog minimum.
Lots of people do 50.4 BCD cranks and they allow a 26 cog which I could get new easily (Veloduo), but they're not as cute.
Williams C34 is 88.9 BCD (3.5") and according to Classic Lightweights they support 32-60 cogs: https://www.classiclightweights.co.u...dentification/

So cunning plan:
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Other makes of 50.4 cottered cranks I've discovered:
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The nicest look I've seen so far is the Durax Super Course, but it also looks a lot like the Stronglight 55/54



It seems to me it's the Simplex chainrings that make it look good.
But there's an issue with that: Velobase says they're only availabkle in 44 - 52: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...m=122&AbsPos=3
On the other hand Simplex Touriste 50.4 rings look good: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...m=122&AbsPos=4

Looks like my 3 arm isn't going to have the Simplex rings
So what's the cutest 3 arm 116 BCD 170mm with 52/36 rings available ?

Wedgelock are cool, with hollow tubular crank arms and cotters that are especially easy to knock out due to their large wedge angle. UK made, so 5/8" spindle and 9/16" pedal threads.



Don't lose those cotters though! Being a hobby machinist, I could make more for myself if I had to, but I shudder to think what you'd have to pay a real machinist to make a couple. But these are so easy to remove that it's unlikely you'll ruin one from trying to get it out.

Cheers, another one I'd never heard of, and it's 50.4.
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...05891&Enum=115

I've got a Williams C34 50 cog arriving soon so I can try an 18 cog jump (50/32) to see if I need a 50.4 BCD.
Although theoretically I could use a 116 BCD 3 arm with 54/36 but that's a bit radical.

If you feel like cheating a bit but still sticking with 116 bcd, the steel Campagnolo Sport cranks are gorgeous and fit square taper. Where's juvela ? This chainset discussion is right up his alley.
Phil

OK, the crank is pretty nice, but is it cottered ?

And I would say it's the Simplex chainrings that provide a lot of the cuteness.
And those Simplex rings are 44-52 only, I need 36 and possibly 34 or 32.

According to Velobase Simplex only did 3 chainring patterns
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Here's the Simplex Touriste 50.4 which I'm not going to find on ebay for £20

And if you want to get silly there's a guy CNC machining old chainrings.
https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/...cranks.482694/
Found it because he does a copy of the Simplex Touriste.
Too expensive for me though.

Got to say Simplex's choice on ring sizes is really annoying.

Simplex Competition double chainwheel
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Simplex Tourist double chainwheel
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1953 Simplex catalogue

Depends on what you mean by BITD. TA didn't make cranks until the '60s, so no one avoided them before that (since they didn't exist).
They made chainrings going way back though, and TA rings on a Stronglight crank was a popular choice for a lot of top riders including a number of TdF winners in the '50s.

It's true that not many racers used TA cranks after they debuted (I wanna say '62?) but they were popular with long-distance riders like randonneurs. I figger if they were good enough for Singer and Herse they're good enough for me.

Er, um, well I have broken TA cranks while riding, twice, so I'm not saying they're great exactly. Both the ones I broke were on MTBs, which involves more out-of-saddle sprinting than most road cranks get, especially on technical singletrack, which used to be my favorite — got to get over that rock, now I have to get over that log... rinse, repeat, many times per mile. Not to mention landing jumps, and crashing. Plus I'm large and somewhat of a sprinter, or was back when I was racing. I haven't broken a Stronglight, Shimano, Sugino or Campy crank, but I didn't use those on my MTB, so not a fair comparison. But yeah you can break TA cranks.

But I think the likelihood is very low. I used to put a lot of them on custom touring bikes and tandems in the '70s and '80s and I don't recall any of those customers ever breaking one, but that could be my memory not being perfect. Still I think I would remember that.

Anyway, I can see being leery, since breaking a crank can ruin your whole day. Even if the likelihood is very low, the stakes are high. But I keep riding them, even having broken two, so I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer. Put that on my epitaph if I die from breaking a TA crank.

Where please (on the crank)?

One broke at the pedal hole, the other further up toward the BB spindle but not all the way up. My memory of that one isn't reliable, it was 30+ years ago and I didn't keep the broken parts.

The following pic is not one of mine, just a pic I saved from the internet:

Mine broke off closer to the BB spindle. more like 15 mm from the spindle? Again, I don't remember for sure, sorry.

Thanks.
I've seen pedal-eye failures and cracks at the spindle end - on TA cranks those sections are quite small.

Cracks develop from a failure of some combination of four things:
Material
Design
Finish
Use

Mention above of "soft" TA cranks is intruiging, but I suspect the small sections are more likely responsible.
Is the particlar aluminium alloy known?
Of all the cotterless cranks the least crack-prone may be the Nervar 5-pin.