Really big freewheel
 

Hey guys, quick question:

Is this the rare and elusive Suntour Alpine Gear? There is no writing or marks anywhere. But there is 38 teeth. Any Suntour experts? pastorbobnlnh, I’ve seen many of your posts and would love your opinion.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2caa132a4.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ce635942f.jpeg

Looks like it to me but it's been a long time since I've seen one.

Yes, that's a Suntour AG freewheel. Send it to me immediately.

For proper disposal, of course.:rolleyes:

Thomas, yes, you have the Alpine version of the Suntour Perfect. It would have originally had a chain guard that uses a cir-clip to attach to the retaining ring/outside bearing race above the smallest sprocket. I might have one but it is not really needed when the RD is adjusted correctly.

Everything else is the same as a 5-speed Perfect or ProCompe. The two smallest sprockets thread on and the three largest sprockets have the typical four-tab of the Suntour A sprockets which also fits on the Winner, Accushift, Alpha bodies.

Jon, if you need a 38T low gear, I have a 6-speed Ultra spaced Perfect or ProCompe available. PM or email me if you are interested.

When I built department store bikes in the 80s we ran into those freewheels at Montgomery Wards. I remember wondering why anyone would need one. I don't now!

Do you, by gosh? PM on the way.

And here we think that gravel bike gearing and mountain bike gearing just before that was extreme and required immensely capable rear derailleurs. It was already made!

Chain guard huh? Is that what this weird piece is?I was wondering if it was a six speed and missing a gear or an unusual locking ring. Do I need a special tool to take it apart?
I’m really glad you say they fit on other Suntour bodies. This one spins pretty horribly. I’ve started hoarding “perfect”s and would like to build a custom freewheel like yours someday.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...983c81f5e.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ef25a2d6.jpeg

Yes, in theory the 38-tooth cog would fit a New Winner Pro freewheel body making a 12-38 Ultra-7 or 11-38 “Regular” 6-speed possible. Not that I ever tried that…

(Pastor Bob- have you ever seen a 11-tooth NWP “Z” cog? It was on the cog board but I can’t remember seeing one for real.)

Long ago, I had several 14-17-21-26-32-38 6-speed Perfect freewheels built up for super-wide-range half-step drivetrains. Still have one here somewhere.

I have a 5-speed freewheel identical to the one depicted (also without the inner guard) that I intend to eventually post for sale, along with a bunch of other interesting freewheels. Maybe in the spring.

I might have a 11T Z in my collection. I'll need to check.

The challenge you would face is that the gearing jumps would not work out very well. For instance, the 11T only threads into a 12T or a 13T, which only threads into a 14T or maybe a 15T (IIRC). So three of the 6 or 7 sprockets would be used up going from 11-15. That only leaves 3 more to reach the 38T. Can you imagine a 11-13-15-20-28-38? Theoretically on a 7-Speed New Winner, Winner, Winner Pro, might add a 24T to the mix, but you'd have to find the 24T that fits above the two A sprockets.
When I lived in NH I went gravel grinding all the time on my '71 Paramount. And that was waaayyyy before the current craze was born. :p
https://hosting.photobucket.com/7949...720&fit=bounds
Here is how I set up my Ultra spaced Perfect with the 38T.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/7949...370&fit=bounds
And yes! I could shift to both the BIG-BIG and the little-little combos and not worry about the RD exploding.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/7949...720&fit=bounds
The two smaller notches on the outside of the retaining ring (next to the 14T sprocket) act the same a the two divot holes on a Perfect or ProCompe. Remember that the threads are reversed, so using a punch, hit a notch clockwise until it loosens.

IIRC, I tried to mount 6 sprockets to this body using 6-speed ultra spacers and it was a no-go.

pastorbobnlnh , thank you so much for the info! I’ll see what I can cook up!

Anyone know when Chuck harris made his own Nivex-inspired derailer, and 42t freewheel? I wanna say early '70s. Pic here stolen from a Riv Reader:Shown here in the big-big combo just to show that the derailer could handle it.

I don't know what his small chainring was, but you can just see a couple of the teeth, made from a freewheel sprocket, about 20t I believe. Oh wait, the Riv Reader says his gear range was from 15 to 133 inches, so I guess that would mean a 23t granny ring, assuming 27" tire.

Here's my AG freewheel, destined for my Schwinn Twinn tandem. We never ride it fast so I replaced the small sprocket with a 17t. (Actually I replaced all the sprockets except the 38t.)

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af9f7f447b.jpg

Showing the chainguard for the top gear. I will probably remove it, so if OP wants it, I can send it and the retaining clip.

I'm thinking of bolting a TA chainring to the 6 "lightening" holes in the 38t sprocket. Maybe about a 48t, or whatever size I have an excess of, in my stack of TA chainrings? I'll need to make custom nuts to fit those holes, and countersink the holes for the heads of the nuts to sit down flush and not snag the chain. Then drill 6 new holes in the chainring at that BCD, whatever it is (haven't measured).

My assumption is, since the spokes angle away from the sprockets, the larger the sprocket the more room you have between it and the spokes, so I think this'll fit on a regular 5-sp. spaced hub.

The countersinking on the holes in the AG sprocket might be non-trivial; freewheel sprockets are usually pretty hard stuff. Probably will have to use a carbide tool to cut it. I'll keep you all posted but this is a back-burnered project, will be a while...

bulgie thanks for posting the picture of your Alpine. It really helps to show what I didn't describe very well.

That's a great idea about adding a chain ring to the back of the 38T. What RD do you plan to use?

Always happy to see a bit of love for SunTour! I didn't remember that they offered a 38 tooth "A" cog.. pretty nice!
However... I don't recall which of their derailleurs was rated to handle a 38T cog. My old Bike Warehouse catalog claims that the rugged SunTour VGT derailleur was rated for 36 teeth. Was that just being conservative, or did they have something else that they intended to work with a 38T cog?

....here's the clipping from my 1980 Bike Warehouse catalog....

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6eb4838066.jpg

dang... I forgot that the VGT was selling for just $10. Not bad for a derailleur that would last for 50 years.

Steve in Peoria
(I think I have one or two VGT's in the parts box)

I poked through my archives, and found Sheldon's write-up of Chuck in Riv Reader #5. I'll insert a scan of the page below.
It doesn't mention specific dates, but the text "and since 1960's derailers were not capable of handling such a range, Chuck modifying existing derailers with longer cages and stronger springs. Finally, he had to build his own".suggests possibly sometime in the 60's. .. or anytime afterwards...
I suppose Chuck may not have remembered the details himself?

Here's the Riv Reader page:


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2e31b9022e.jpg

and just for fun, a shot of my bike next to Chuck's. I'll let the reader figure out which is Chuck's. :)
This was at the 2003 Horsey Hundred in Kentucky. Chuck was selling mirrors as well as doing the ride.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e146502479.jpg

Steve in Peoria, where I still use my Chuck Harris helmet mirror.

I have one (donored from a Fuji) on my '72 MBGR and a second (eBay'd) sitting on a shelf, just in case....

This is what I need! Incredibly helpful post, I’m taking notes,
-Erin

The AG rear derailleur was specifically designed for the 38. One would think the triple-pulley rear derailleurs like the LePree would handle the 38 well, but my experience wasn't all that great. Several of the very long cage index Shimano derailleurs made around 1988-1992 shifted the 38 very well. This was long before the existence of cheats useful accessories like the Wolf Tooth Road Link derailleur dropper, which enables a wider range of rear derailleurs to handle decent-size rear sprockets.

Other than the Suntour AG, the only derailleur that I have successfully used with a 38 cog is a Huret Duopar. You can also see that Pastor Bob had one on his Paramount.

Looking at the VGT in the catalog, I noticed something weird:

It's rated for a 36t max cog. Which, according to the good Reverend, Suntour never made. (Bummer, too, it would have been really useful.)

Either way, I guess the V-GT Luxe I got the other week is, realistically, a 34t derailleur, at least for freewheels, if it won't do a 38.

No plans really, but this Schwinn Twinn seems to be going in a French direction, with LeFol fenders, Idéale saddles, Maxicar rear drum brake hub, Mafac canti front and probably a Raid in back (haven't brazed the pivots on yet). So maybe a Duopar, with an extra-long claw adapter. Eco (steel) version of course, not putting titanium parts on a 80 lb bike.

The Twinn requires a derailer claw, and I can make one as long as necessary. I have a chunk of 1/4" thick stainless that would make a nice strong one. With extra length comes extra leverage for bending it, but 1/4" thick is still probably overkill. But the main defense against bending it is never letting the bike fall over — so far so good, touch wood. Oh yeah, this bike has steel paperboy baskets, so even if the bike falls over, the basket hits before the derailer. Not lightweight though!

bulgie THAT THING! I saw it in the bin at the co-op and didn’t know what it was. I plan to go back this weekend. If I don’t find it I might take you up on that!