Somewhat ironically, I've got an original wheel set with the Herailleur gear and trigger. Sadly, the hassle and cost of shipping to the US makes it a non starter.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1e12b7cbcd.jpg

Threaded driver on a '49 AW would be correct for that period. I use heat, Kroil, and a chain whip to unthread. I prefer to take out the driver, place on the base plate on the Park Tool fork jig or, if you don't have that, the neck of a heavy-duty adjustable wrench. The mount should be close-fitting to prevent the driver tines from chipping. They are hard and durable but they do chip if abused. It's worth disassembling to check the bearing cup before putting time and effort into this job. If the bearing cup is trashed, replace the driver with a three-spline/clip type and move on. It isn't worth the trouble if the cup is too far gone. Neat hub. Looks like it came from a 1949-50 New World if it's paired with a chrome Schwinn rim.

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2024...-threaded.html

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...120_174228.jpg

Thank you for the tips. I'm guessing that it doesn't need to stay laced to the rim to gain any leverage advantage. I could pass it along to Shannon as is and let him sort through the details on his end.

Close on your New World guess. :thumb: It was from a very early '50s ladies Superior that came my way decades ago. The frame looked more like a New World but it was badged as a "Superior."

First of all, since the amazing Bob has revealed his generosity here & now, I'll just go ahead and likewise convey publicly my deep and profound gratitude for his generosity. (I was going to wait for permission to publicize the whole thing, but he's done that now, so I don't have to worry about embarrassing him.)

To the point, I do have a 1962 AW here, of the 40-hole variety. If it's possible to do with both hubs unlaced, I can also swap the driver from one to the other. Of course, the best outcome will be if the good Reverend can get the sucker loose, but there are other options if he can't. (Granted, those options are utterly terrifying... just looking at the diagram makes my left eyelid twitch.)

And again, thanks be unto Bob! People like him and places like this are what it's all about.

--Shannon

I've tinkered with a few Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs, and it's not as bad as you think it is. I found RJ the bike guy's of a rebuild very helpful in addition to the procedure Sheldon Brown shares on his website. Usually the hardest part is punching the DS ball ring loose, and getting all the pawls facing the right way. The first time I did it I installed all the low gear pawls oriented backwards. It's a little easier if you remember that the pawls are chamfered on one edge to help the whole thing slide into the hub shell and the low gear ratchet ring.

If I ever do a hybrid thing on this bike, the Herailleur is the only thing I'd even consider using. Anything else would be Just Wrong. Either as a chain tensioner for a multi-chainring setup, or as an actual derailleur shifting over one of the mutli-cogs. (Whatever their actual name is... they're not freewheels, 'cuz they dont, right?)

Fortunately, if/when I do such a thing, they're not hard to find. Which is weird for such a seemingly obscure part.

--Shannon

I remember being intimidated about overhauling an AW hub. The exploded diagram looked so complicated. But that's the nature of exploded diagrams.

For me, the hard part is squeezing the pawl springs into position. They jump out and escape to someplace on the floor. Patience! Getting the pieces back together in the right order is a little tricky but just a little. You find out when you put something on backwards or in the wrong order.

I would not want to do it without a vise. I forgot: do you have a coop where you can do this, and does it have a vise?

When it's all back together, it will be very satisfying.

BTW, see my thread about an old Philips I spied on the street in Mexico City. My spouse and I are spending a few days here and having a blast.

Every few years I'll have occasion to rebuild a S-A hub. I did my first ones back in the 70s. Just did one for this young fellow in China! I've been helping him sort out his burgeoning vintage bike collection for several months. He speaks perfect English so we communicate well, and he takes his shipments in Hong Kong so no duties or hassle. I got lucky on this and the ball cup came out easily. They can be a bugger to remove if not built into a wheel. I made a wood clamp the diameter of the barrel so I could hold it in my vise. This is a 1952 AW Alloy shell. It will go on his very nice Hetchins. Bob Freeman
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64a507c3cc.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57b84be4d2.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...071efee3cc.jpg
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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e7cb4d815.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...82a729c796.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e15751f29.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02050af86c.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c4c02a5f6d.jpg

Just wanted to chime in that I love old Schwinn three speeds simply because they are 36 hole. When I find them for 25$ or less I buy.

Here's an interesting side note. The Sting Rays with S-A were 28 hole. So you can make a nice light road bike wheel with one. I found 3 of them NOS once. Probably still have one.

Vintage 1969 Sturmey Archer AW Bicycle Hub 28 Hole Schwinn Stingray Bike | eBay

Bob Freeman

I've found 1950s-era 36-hole AWs to be some of the best bargains. Schwinn ordered and used large numbers of AWs (including alloy AWs) on their 1950s era middleweights and lightweights. Those hubs seem to fall between the cracks for collector markets. The muscle bike collectors usually want 28-hole hubs and the collectors of British bikes tend to want 40-hole hubs for their projects. Balloon tire bike collectors usually want New Departure double and triple speed hubs rather than Sturmey Archers. So you'll occasionally find, for very little money, 1950s era 36-hole AW hubs. They're well-made and can work with a variety of rims.

So, having finally gotten my bearings, (ha!) I went and rebuilt the front hub.

In putting it all back together, I found that it fit much more easier into the fork if I left out the 2nd, non-keyed, washers. I think I remember reading that that's how Schwinn made them fit their forks.

Did I just screw up?

--Shannon

I've just taken my first tottering steps on the road of Sturmey & Archer.

Took off the circlip, cog, & spacers, and the weirdo washers, and the sprocket dustcap. Basically took the drive side down the the driver. Put similar-sized parts in ziploc bags.

Now I'll pause and think and read and stuff.

The goals here are:

• To prepare for swapping the splined driver from my 40-hole '62 into the 36-hole '49 that pastorbobnlnh is hooking me up with, in the not-unlikely event that the threaded cog is irremovably fused with it's driver.
• To be my initiation into the Sturmey-Archurian Mysteries, on a hub that I won't be sad if I break it.

Further to follow.

--Shannon

I think you'll do well with the AW rebuild. It seems intimidating, however, it's not too difficult. Pawl springs can be tricky, however, you can leave them in place if they are moving freely. Keeping the pawls in place also helps with the biggest question/issue with these rebuilds, in my opinion. Which way the pawls go. That is assuming that it has never been apart before.

Video's help. I like this one: The only thing I'll add is that I use grease on the ball bearings.

Pretty soon you'll be like these guys:
It it was me, I'd go with the newer circlip driver on the 36 hole hub so that I could change cogs if/when needed and even to keep the door open to make a hybrid geared bike later.

The part of rebuilding Sturmey archer hubs that I always sort of fear is removing the "cap" — not sure what it's called, but the side with the spanner slot/grooves. I don't know if anyone has the tool — I always use a full tang screw driver that's been blunted dull, use it like a chisel. If the hub is laced to a wheel, it's easier. I've done a few that aren't with the hub shell pinched in a vice with towels protecting it from scuffing the body. I've scuffed some bodies though, and I've broken the caps off the 50's metal oil ports doing it— those are hard to find replacements for. I've bought whole hubs to replace the metal oil ports. I've never been able to get the "cap" on the other side off — didn't seem worth it. But I think you do need to get the side with the spanner grooves off to get anywhere. It's always a relief to see it start moving when I get into one.

One consideration I haven’t seen mentioned for retrofitting an S-A hub into a 120mm spaced rear triangle is that you need to replace the 5 3/4” axle with a 6 x 1/4”. The original hubs are spaced for a 115mm rear end, so you need the longer axle so that your axle nuts have enough threads to engage (you also need an indicator with a longer rod, but you can get away with the shorter one). Those longer axles are plentiful, so shouldn’t be hard to find, but you do need to take The whole hub apart to install it.

It is settled--- I'll send the '49 SA AW hub your way and let you dig into the work! :D :thumb: I'm just getting over a bad respiratory virus, so I can get back in shop later today or tomorrow without getting into trouble with Mrs. PB. :innocent:

Now I know of two more bike youtubers who might be worth watching. Thanks, Velo Mule.

Was replacing the innards into a 36h shell dismissed for some reason?

ShannonM, there is a fact you must know. Axle nuts (for attaching the wheel to the frame) on Sturmey Archer hubs are deliberately made of soft metal. The threads strip easily even when you think you didn't overtighten them. This is to make sure you don't strip the threads on the axle. Consider getting spare axle nuts.

The blindfolded rebuild contest is a hoot. Thanks, Velo Mule. I know I could not do that. I can do a few things blindfolded. When I worked in a kindergarten class and a student needed me to tie their shoes, I would tell them to put their hands over my eyes while I did it. That would amaze them. I adjust a Sturmey Archer 3-speed with feel and sound, not the traditional way so I can do it blindfolded. Did you know that blind people can learn to build and true wheels?

I think you're referring to the drive side "ball ring". The ball ring can be removed with a punch/blunt screwdriver as you have found, or using the Gentleman Cyclist ball ring tool. The punch method is easier if the hub is laced into a wheel, the ball ring tool is easier if the hub is not laced into a wheel. You are right that the correct way to dismantle the AW is to loosen and remove the ball ring from the shell. The hub innards come out as a unit when that is done. Later hubs with the rounded notches in the ball ring can be disassembled using the Sturmey Archer ball ring spanner.

The non-drive side cup is removable, but that is only done as a last resort to address a damaged cup on a shell you really want to use. The older hubs have a vise flat to unscrew the non-drive side cup. Later hubs have a non-drive side cup that punches out and is held in place by friction. Removal of the non-drive side cup I consider a more "advanced" repair, but it's doable with a little knowledge of how the AW works and some patience. More on it here: https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/p/st...left-hand.html

Fortunately for me, the Hercules is ~114ish, so no worries there.

--Shannon

Looks like the spanner is about 50 bucks. I've never regretted buying the special, unitasking tool for weirdo jobs like this. I have often regretted not buying said tool.

Whack!!... tinng!... <long_string_of_porfanity>... stare forlornly at broken part...

I've got no time limit... I'll wait until I've got the scratch, and then I'll buy the tool. Or use the co-op's, if they have one.

--Shannon

Or, just use it as is and allow the frame to flex down to 115. You could cold set it to 115 easily but 2 1/2 mm per side is not much for it to flex. One of the first SA bikes I put together was a Raleigh International back about 1980, and I'm sure I didn't go to any great lengths to make it work.
Bob Freeman

PS - Currently have this b1951 Gillott equipped with a 1951 AM medium ratio alloy shell 40h hub. I don't remember how the frame was originally spaced, but likely narrow.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27555973ab.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...696c5b4ebd.jpg

All good advice from Velo Mule but I just want to add; If you do take the pawl springs out, replace them on the correct side of the pawl. Do not assume they are correct. Just look up a diagram to make it clear, it is easy to overlook this small detail. Oh, and the part number of the spring is HSA 120 for when one launches and disappears forever.........

Since 1972
 

I have been using the hammer and screwdriver on SA three speed hub ball cups since 1972, I was twelve. Even in Schwinn Service School that is how we were trained, no spanner in sight.

More things.

I just got my stuff out of storage, after about a year and a half of not having it. In and amongst all the detritus of my former life is my ~96 GT Karakoram, which I'm going to sell. (It serves no direct purpose anymore, I got it for 60 bucks at the Bike Kitchen, and I've never really liked it much.)

But I did steal its generic aluminum North Road bars for the Kestrel.

Here's the mockup:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1f0b7a8a56.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...40b786e13f.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...454d1c3641.jpg

So that's where we are now. I like the look, but the proof will be in the riding. (Which is still months away... it's kind of an 'eating an elephant' kinda thing.)

--Shannon