Hercules Kestrel
 

As everybody who saw the 'Are You Looking' post and who is not named Shannon doubtless predicted, I am now, after a couple of hours of arguing with me, (I lost,) and about 2.5 hours of bus & BART, (Northgate Oakland to Berryessa,) the custodian of what I think is a 21" 1949 Hercules Kestrel Club:

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The paint's in durned good shape for a ~76-year-old bike. Patina? We gots us some patina right here!

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Of course, it is English paint. The ripples on the inside of the fork leg are one thing, but I've never seen the lower one... looks like somebody set the thing on a door screen to dry!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...22720ec9ad.jpg
Looks like Davey (on the rolling machine) had an extra one at lunch that day... I though you were supposed to weld the seams?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1de40e297f.jpg
The almost-certainly-useless serial number.

I am offically throwing this build thread open for ideas, suggestions, information, insults, and/or whatever else anybody wants to throw down. Any and/or all of which I may or may not ignore at any time and for any period.

--Shannon

Nice find! That Reynolds decal looks like the one that was on my 1950 Raleigh Clubman, so your date estimation seems right on.

From the 1949 catalog:

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Nice find. Knowing a thing or two about such bikes, I do not recommend the investment in time or money required to do a period correct restoration, as you will inevitably see a complete similar bike in original condition available for a fraction of the cost as soon as you finish.

Shannon, what a great find!!! Fantastic job!

Here's the hub you need for that little pulley near seat cluster.

Hercules 3-speed Hub, and at a great price.

Does the pulley only work with their hubs?

And how much of a nightmare would finding a 40-hole aluminum rim in a useful diameter? (650B seems like the best choice?)

--Shannon

That's thrilling to behold. Congratulations.

About the workmanship: I'd console myself with the knowledge that I'm in possession of an historical artifact that was built when the British Labor Party was all-powerful, when every sloppy weld was a rude inverted "V" sign aimed at those who controlled the means of production.

(For proper appreciation, you might do well to start a thread on The Cabe, too. Some of them are even more deranged than we are.)

Initial build thoughts:

A down-to-the-screw-heads restoration is beyond my patience, finances, and basic nature. I'll just stand back and admire those bikes, as with all other artistry that I'm incapable of. Plus, they seem to have been available as a frameset, so I can justify a lot of things. At least to myself.

It's maybe too small to build as a drop-bar bike. (Although I have no idea how to fit a frame this old. Things were different then.) 21" seat tube, but the 22-1/2" top tube is the same as on my 23-1/2" Raleigh Competition. With the parallel head and seat tubes, they could get away with only cutting one top tube for both frames? Right now, I'm thinking something North-Road-ish / Albatross-y. Nice looking, newish, and aluminum. Stem will probably end up a Technomic, just for quill length. (And just overall metallic quality... Nitto gonna Nitto.) I might could go flipped / mustache-style... I hated the Riv ones so very much the only time I built a bike with them, but I've wondered if I gave them a fully fair try. They look so good!

I want to use aluminum parts where sensible, but maintain era-correctness.

Cranks: I've got the Nervar 52/42 ring set from the 631/633 on the Raleigh, and the 'star' 52 would make a great-looking chainguard, and a 42 goes pretty good on a 3-speed, and a French 5-pin wouldn't be wrong on the bike, and...

Brakes? I don't know what the reach would need to be, and it's wheel-dependent anyway. My gut is to go with centerpulls, but I'm not particularly committed to any specific answer here. Almost total lack of knowledge.

Brooks, of course. Maybe a Flyer... the excessive heightedness would help with the smallness. Also, just seems right. Seatpost? The Gods alone know.

--Shannon

No, it will work with a Sturmey Archer hub as well. It's for the shifter cable. Here's the shifter.

Of course the challenge with running a 3-speed hub is you don't have any real climbing gears. There will be no 32T bail-out gear. They are perfect for where I live on a flat coastal island. Not so much in the Bay area.

The first thing will be to do what I can with the 77-year-old paint. It's in pretty fantastic shape, but I want to freshen it up as much as is safe, and then protect it, and the existing patina / beausage, going forward.

The prospect terrifies me.

--Shannon

Truth.

Horses for courses. Or, "why do you need* so many bikes?"

--Shannon

*This begs the question... namely, that 'need' is in any way a relevant parameter. It is not.

Hi,
I think you have the right idea or approach to the build. I have a 1961 Mondica and a 1964 Holdsworth that I used the same approach. Reasonably vintage correct alloy parts to get the weight down. The Mondica came with early model Weinmann alloy CP brakes that I have never seen before and mainly alloy parts. The crankset was an all steel 3 arm which I haven’t decided on how to replace, maybe an older TA or Stronglight. The Holdsworth has been built as a path racer. Alloy mustache bars, Universal brakes, Milremo hubbed wheels with Rigida rims a Campagnolo Sport crankset. Understand that these are regular riders that look OK and ride better.
Cheers,
Van

Looks like original wheels were EA1/597mm, which are pretty impossible to find in decent shape, but EA3/590mm would work (common Raleigh 3-speed size). My 1950 Raleigh Lenton Tourist was made for EA1 wheels, but I run 700 x 32mm with fenders, and brakes are "normal" reach. If this were mine, I'd first rig it up as a single-speed with 700c wheels, whether with upright bars or drop and then assess if it's a keeper.

Usually it's pretty bad to find a usable 590 rim, however this popped up for me recently:
https://ebay.us/m/kj5tTP
I'm going to trust the advertisement for the fully built bike in that the frame is intended for these size rims.

597 was also the Schwinn version of 26 x 1 3/8.

But an average person probably could not tell the difference between 590 and 584 without measuring. Just sayin.

I was going to say period correct SA 3 speed or even 4 speed but had forgotten about the Hercules branded models which as has been suggested would be a good choice.

That's a good thought about the Herc hub, although I'd imagine parts would be harder to come by. The nice thing about the AW is that there were a brazillion of the things, so spares and know-how are everywhere.

And 40-hole 650B rims are not uncommon. Not cheap, but rims just aren't these days.

I'll probably end up cutting a 36-hole hub out of a co-op wheel and lacing it to the Velocity I've already got, because poverty, but none of this is going to happen quickly. (Because poverty.)

Step 1 is removing the Shimano BB, tearing down the headset, and starting the cleaning / restoration of the paint. Then Boeshield inside the pipes and whatever is best for the outside.

This is gonna be fun. (And slow.)

--Shannon

Can the internal parts be interchanged between the Hercules and S-A hubs? My Hercules doesn't shift to high gear, I'm not sure if I assembled it wrong or if it has some worn out pieces. I used the S-A instructions to attempt to rebuild it and everything looked the same, but I couldn't tell if there were minor differences in dimensions. I have a good S-A hub that I could salvage the internals from. It's from a folding bike with 28 spokes or I would just re-lace the wheel.

If the insides looked the same, you probably already know the answer. Sheldon Brown wrote:
He also explained that Raleigh bought Hercules in 1960, which should presumably end their hub manufacture. This would be a better topic in the mechanics thread to figure out what other differences there could be.

ShannonM
Hello again,
I noticed that there are several co-ops in your area, on both sides of the bay. Don’t know about BART access. My brother and I have used those in San Jose and they are a good source for vintage parts. I currently volunteer at an excellent one in Salem, OR. If you need something unusual or rare, message me and I’ll checkout their inventory. Postage shouldn’t be too expensive.
Cheers,
Van

Your Kestrel could fly right alongside my Merlin. I went full boat restoration on this as it was pretty special. Has the 597 26 x 1 1/4 wheels which I re-used. Not that uncommon in Jolly Olde. Came as fixed so I've left it that way. Once again the URL doesn't seem to show (maybe it will now) so I've added some pics.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a0cd6a55b4.jpg
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HiBoB!

Man, that is a really pretty* bike!

--Shannon

* Adjective chosen with intention, and not with diminution. 'Pretty' is a specific kind of compliment, which your Merlin deserves. And perhaps even exemplifies.

As I'd posted a couple of posts ago, I embarked upon the wine-dark sea of 'bring back as much of the original paint as you dare attempt.'

The first oar I dipped into these waters was to use dish soap, a sponge, hot bathtub water, and my actual bathtub to do a surface clean and see where I'm starting from.

You can see that the fork came back more than the frame did. Part of that is certainly to do with the lack of transfers and/or paint lining on the fork... I was less scared of it.
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I don't know how close I can try to get to the burnished gold / taupe-y bronze contrast that seems to be lurking underneath, but it's a route I really like the looks of.

--Shannon

To keep the individual posts from getting too big for viewing, I made a separate one for the overall condition of the paint job after one round of cleaning. Again, this is where I'm starting from. And, at this level of beausage / patina / wear / damage /decrepitude, and after 77 years of aging, it's quite a nice place to begin.

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--Shannon

My current thinking is towards a 3-speed rough-stuff bike, like an 80s MTB gravel conversion, but more elegant and with a 40-year-older frame. The dimensions of the thing, 21" seat tube with a 22-1/2" top, are pretty close to the 'one size up from your flat-bar MTB fit' heuristic that seems to work for converting pre-NORBA geometry frames.

650Bs, probably 48 mil Gravel King SS. (R/H Juniper Ridges would be dope, but 180 bucks for tires ain't happenin'.)

Flipped Alabatrosses or similar... more than an OG moustache, less than a modern dirt drop... a bit more dirt scorcher than dirt surfer, if you get the distinction. The gnomes from the Cave of Bad Ideas keep whispering "reverse brake levers" into my thalamus...

A ride to BART, ride to the dirt, ride the dirt, ride back to BART, ride BART, ride home sorta* bike.

--Shannon

* Anybody got linkage to builds like this? I utterly failed to come up with a useful name upon which to base a thread search. (I really don't want to dive into the definitional cesspit around terms like "path racer.")

If you are going to use it off road I would suggest using Sturmey Archer drum brake hubs, I have on a couple of bikes and it prevents dirt clogging the brakes and wearing the rims, I think they give nice clean lines to the bike as well.