I'm having an old Raleigh Mid 80s frame repainted. My LBS recommended a place that does powder coating, supposed to be tough stuff and he 'said' they do a great job as they had some bikes painted.

I show up at the painting place and get a quote of $80 Cdn for a primer coat and 1 coat of paint.

I hand over the frame and fork and here's what happens:

1) I show up 7 days later to get frame and there's a few scuffs and dings in the paint. I hand it back and they said that they will fix it.

2) Another 7 days I go to pick up the frame. They have put an extra coat of paint on plus a clearcoat. Well, I didn't ask for that but I guess he was trying to protect the paint. I paid for it and went home. The next morning my wife states that the frame and fork are differant colours. I can't see any difference, but when i bring the bike out in the sun, Holy Crap the frame is orange!! He put a clearcoat on the frame but NOT the fork and it turned the paint orange. You can't really see it in artifical light and since I picked it up at night I didn't notice.

3) I bring the frame back and show him the difference. Looks like he knew this already but thought that since I paid for it and didn't say anything that I was ok with the 2 differant colours. He said if I'm not happy, then he's not happy and he'll fix it. I state to him I want the frame stripped and repainted (I repeated this 3 times). He says that this powder coating is hard to get off, he's starting to call it "the bike from hell" and that he has ways of 'fixing' this type of problem and this is starting to get really expensive for him. Oh boy, I think I know what that means....

4) 10 days later I go back and sure enough he tried sanding off the clearcoat, as I could see sanding marks through the 4th coat of paint PLUS when I run my thumbnail down the paint it peels off, it's not bonding to the other 3 coats. I show him this, he swears a bit, again calls it the bike from hell and promptly brings it over to a paint stripper bath and dunks the whole bike in. He apologies for the wait and says the only way to fix this now is to dissolve the paint off in the stripper which will take some time as he cannot sandblast this stuff off.

Anyway, this is a 2-3 year old business, he is kinda just starting off and I feel kinda bad for putting him through this. But the paint wasn't right. I feel like I should give him some more money to offset the cost PLUS I do want a good job done and feel that if I give him more money he will not try to take shortcuts like he did with sanding off the clearcoat. I don't want to get the frame back and in 2 months have it look ratty because the paint just did not hold up and have no recourse to get it fixed.

Whaddya think? Should I give him more cash in ordr to ensure a better job, so he's not tempted to make even more shortcuts?

Here's his site: https://www.precision-powder-coating.com/

Give him MORE money!? Doug, you've been drinking the bong water, haven't you? I'd say the safest thing to do is snag the frame back once he strips it, call it even and take it somewhere they know what they're doing.

And be glad he isn't painting your car.

He should have done the job right the first time, the second time, and the third time. Not make half hearted attempts at a fix. Expensive or not, it's a lesson he'll likely remember for a while and not screw around with 'fixing' things like this in the future.

He's the coater, he quoted you.... don't feel badly for him. It's entirely up to him to provide a final product to the customers' satisfaction. A clear coat will affect colour just as much as a varnish on wood or on a printed piece will. He's learnin' a lesson that will do nothing but improve his future work. Do it right the first time, and if you screw up, don't use a band-aid if you need stitches.

Ya I see your points and I agree.

But, I don't want him to do another 'fix' that I can't catch and by the end of the summer the frame is ratty looking. If I give him more cash my hope is that he'll now take the time to make sure its right and not try to hide the problem. Like I said, he's stated that this is getting expensive for him and he's tried to do quick fixes in hopes to reduce his cost.

I want this paint to last, if it takes and extra $80 for it not to fall apart then I think it's worth it (no?).

If I take it elsewhere, he still has my $80 for nothing and I have to pay someone else. So what's the diff? Well, maybe I'd get a better job somewhere else.....

I would pick up the frame, bare and go elsewhere, if he has to strip it another time and call it a tough lesson for all.

Something else too. There is really no where else too go but a car painting place. Those guys are used to painting a flat surface, now they have to make sure the whole tube is painted all the way around, up between the fork, underneath the BB, etc all the while not filling in the areas where the headset cups and the like need to be fitted.

There is another guy in town who custom panits hockey masks and he did a bike frame a while back. I asked him for a quote to paint the frame ($500) but that was for all the detailing I wanted also, that Mike (mswantak) is now doing for me in decals. I suspect that for just a one coat spray it'll be alot less but still over $100.

My choices are limited.

Car bodies aren't just flat panels (late '70s Fords excluded). There are all sorts of complex surfaces on car bodies, and any decent painter knows how to approach them. This guy has screwed the pooch three times; what assurance do you have that all of a sudden he'll do it right? He was pissed the second and third times, and he won't be any happier about the fourth. You're not putting him through anything; he's done this to himself. I'm betting if you looked into it, the other stuff he's done didn't turn out any better.

Wait 'til he strips it then pick it up. He's got $80, which is more than he deserves but he'll be glad to take it and not have to deal with the frame anymore. Take it to a car painter. I think if you talk it over thoroughly with them at the start, and point out things like the embossing you don't want to fill up, they'll do a job that you'll be satisfied with.

that's kinda sneaky if you ask me. he was trying to pass that through and hope you didn't notice. really bad IMO.

PRECISION powder coating? Hmmm...

Spend you money on someone who can do the job right the first time.

Just read this somewhere; There's never a budget to do it right the first time, but there's ALWAYS a budget to do it all over again!!!!!!

Sorry I don't powdercoat, but I can PAINT a factory quality job!

So spare this guy (and yourself). Get the frame back and get it to somebody familiar with PCing a bike frame, even if you have to ship it somewhere. Continuing to work with this guy will only be frustrating for the both of you. His specialty may be 4wheel drive bumpers.

Cut your losses & good luck. As soon as I find some qualified powdercoaters I will let y'all know via this forum.

Ciao,
Dr.D

I just called another guy who said that it'll be about $150.
He said that bike frames are hard to paint and you'll be paying for him to have it done right...all those tubes.

I asked if powder coating is hard to get off, he said no, they'll just sand it off.

I also called the dweeb and he said that they are "still working on that bleepin' frame"
I said that I was thinking about taking the frame after its stripped and going elsewhere. He said ok, if that's what you want, when we get it stripped I'll call you and see what you decide I didn't quite catch this part, but it was something like, we are eager to get rid of you......chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Not said in a bad way, but I hear his frustration.

Burns me that he's getting $80 for stripping the frame, and by Christ it better be ALL stripped off!!!!

Well, no doubt; it must be really frustrating not to be any good at what you decided to do for a living.

Just out of curiosity, you ought to see if the Better Business Bureau has any complaints on this guy.

Pay him more for detaining your bike for multiple weeks and still not getting it right? Nope.

I agree. $80 is a tough one to swallow, but a relatively cheap life lesson over all. Get the frame back, kiss the money goodbye, and move on. If you want to take a stab at getting some of your money back, ask him for it. If you don't get any satisfaction, try small claims court.

See who the local bike shops use, and contact them.

A single color spray by a professional bike painter costs about $250 - maybe $300. Seems a bargain if you try to put a price on your aggravation with the "deal" you got.....

Hell, I got a complete single color spray, pinstriping, decals, a new head tube, AND installation of the BB/headset/fork for just over $400. From a well known and highly ecommended professional bike builder/painter. He did it once, to my specs, and did it more than right.

Money well spent.

+1

This IS the painter my LBS recommended (there is no one in my province who specializes bicycle painting)

In fact, here is the response by the LBS owner, who recommended them to me. I emailed him to let him know what I thought of this place:

Hey Doug

Thanks for the heads up on Precision Powder Coating. I'm sorry to hear that
you are having so many problems with them, as we have had many customers
come to us with their bikes after getting painted by Precison, and very
happy with their work.

Hopefully they will take care of you and you bike!
Please let me know the outcome.


I'm debating whether or not to move on. It seems unfair for me to have to dish out another $150+ for the error this guy made.

I wouldn't ..... I have worked in print for years and sometimes there are jobs that sometimes take on a life of their own. His BIG mistake was thinking he could do a quick fix. A frame is a beautiful fluid thing, and freshly painted any flaws are easy to pick up. Dare I say had he not gone for the quick fix right away you would be riding not posting. Let him make it right...... it might become a matter of professional pride for him, and his rep is riding on this now that LBS is aware.

Monkeys might fly out of his butt, too. He saw Doug's frame as a quick buck, tried to throw a quick and dirty job on it, and now he's pissy because he got called on it. That's the level of professional pride we're looking at here.

Doug -- ask your LBS who some of these other folks were who supposedly got a good job done. Get ahold of them and look at their bikes. It's entirely possible they're happy because they don't know what a good job is.

This guy is a loser. Get your frame back, and go elsewhere.

I'm not a pro painter, and I've painted dozens of bike frames successfully. Painting a bike frame requires a bit of skill, but it ain't rocket science.

My thinking is along the lines of Big Boss Man's.

Even if you add this $150 to the $80 you have already spent, $230 is relitively cheap in today's world.

Decide if you want to work it out with the guy or take the frame elsewhere. Either way, make the decision & move on. If you don't think you can work it out with him, move on. If he has an attitude (as it sounds he does), move on.

No need to get in a fight with the guy. $80, or even $230, is a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things. So you go to war with the guy, in the end all you get is grief. You lost your time, energy, & motivation. Worse case, you end up in a fist fight w/ the guy or get attorneys involved. That $230 will look mighty cheap compared to those costs.

You have the bike for fun. You are probalbly doing the project as an past time enjoyment thing. Keep it that way.

As a graduate of the School of Hard Knocks & sorely learned lessons, that is my $.02. Bob

Well, these are all good and helpful comments, thank you. To be honest I see the merit in giving the guy another chance AND cutting my losses and going elsewhere. I'm swaying back and forth. Plus, $150 is something I just don't want to spend considerng I have a few more bike things to buy - new shoes, new pedals, etc.

It may seem like only a bike frame to some people (I don't mean y'all) but it matters to me and like Bob S. said, this is for fun and enjoyment and I like taking an old frame, working on it (trying to get it to run with todays components) and making them like new.

I talked to me missus about it and she said that I should make the guy do it right. Soooo, I'm gonna try and work it out with him (no worries, no extra money). I've drafted an email I am going to send (and fax) to him to make sure I am clear in what I want.

If it doesn't work THIS time OR the paint job starts to look ratty by the end of the summer, THEN I'll take it to another place and have it redone. I know what you're thinking, he tried to hide this before by doing a light sanding and repainting. Ah, I guess I'm a pushover.....

Below is my email:

Good day gentlemen,

I was talking to one of you guys today (Feb 22) about my bicycle frame when I mentioned that I was thinking about taking it elsewhere.

Before I called you, I had gotten a couple of more quotes from some other places in town and wanted to determine exactly what stage you were at in order to help me decide.

In retrospect, it is not fair for me to pay another $150 plus to someone else in order to get this frame painted. If it was a problem I had caused then I would certainly own up to it. Cyclesmith on Tacoma Drive, who recommended you, say that they have had customers in the past who have been very happy with your work. Judging by our conversations, you both seem to have alot of professional pride and want to set this problem right but an unfortunate set of events has really turned this into....one of life's lessons.

Considering this then, I would like to give it one more try please. I want to be clear that I would like the frame completely stripped (I know you're doing that now) and have it repainted with 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of the red paint (powder coat) that I have previously selected.

I am going to fax this to you also, not because I wish to harass you, but rather, to ensure that I do not misrepresent myself, plus email does have a tendency to become lost, misdirected, abandoned, etc.

Please call me at one of the numbers below when the frame is ready:
Work xxx-xxxx
Home xxx-xxxx

Take care,
Doug R.

It's not that you are a pushover. It's that you're from the East Coast where some of the nicest people in Canada live.

Probably shouldn't have posted your home and work numbers on a public forum.....

My suggestion is to keep it positive. Delete all of para #2 & the first 2 sentences of para #3 so that para #3 starts with Cycle...

Bob