I think the triathlon model is a modern Motobecane from Taiwan, no relation to the C&V Motobecane from France.

Mirage's were second from the bottom, above the entry-level Nomade. A "Sport" designation would place it below the Super Mirage, although perhaps above a plain ol' Mirage (I think).

OK, my GT is stamped 75. I presumed that this was the year because I purchased it in the 70's. However, it actually says: "75º", I think. So, I got out my fancy Chinese protractor and the angle is 75 degrees. So, that appears to be the lug angle, not anything to do with a year.

Hi, I wanted to find out what year it was and what the original components were. I'm not sure why it is considered a touring bike as it does not have any brazeons for racks or water bottles. Maybe it is more of a "sport" touring bike.
Gordon p

Anything with "sport" in the model; name refers to the paint scheme. They call it "sport trim"

And super sprint wich I suspect of being a jubilee sport marked differently.

serial #s
 

I recently purchased a 70s Grand Touring and sorted out the year to be a 76 based on the equipment, color and construction referenced from the old catalogs and articles. While looking at the serial # I noticed the bottom bracket had 2 separate 3 digit numbers. The 606 number might correspond to June 1976 and was stamped the same time as the serial number but in a separate location. The other # was under more layers of paint on the bottom bracket and was stamped 602. This might indicate a February 76 frame manufacture date. After being built the frames were primed to prevent rust, the final serial #s seem to be from just before the final paint and assembly.

All the lugs are stamped with the angles in various hard to find places which do measure out so these are not date codes.

Did anything come of the database? This year of bike has the Vitus tubing, Suntour shifting and a SR Apex - 5 Crankset which corresponds to pictures of that year having a 42 T small chain ring versus the 40T of other years. The Pivo stem has a long reach and might get swapped out for a shorter SR.

In general, the numbers stamped in Motobecane frames (plus most of the other French production bikes) have little or no traceability. The original Motobecane company went bankrupt in 1981 and was purchased by Yamaha. Peugeot Bikes and Micmo, the makers of Gitanes merged in 1992 to form the Cycleurope Group. All of their records are long gone.

Back in the 1970s the CPSC (US Consumer Protection Safety Commission) mandated that all bicycles sold in the US had to have traceable serial numbers.

Again, all of the importers and distributors of those bikes bikes are long gone - consequently, no records.

With the exception of "some" Peugeot PX-10s from the 1960s and early 70s, it seems that the numbers stamped into those Motobecane, Peugeot and Gitane frames were more like production runs rather than serial numbers. There was little rhyme or reason to them.

Save those numbers for the next time you play Lotto! :lol:

Many French bikes used Bocama (BCM) lugs that had the angles stamped into them: 72, 73, 74 & 75 in the top and seat lugs, 58, 60 & 61 in the bottom lugs. The bottom bracket shells had 59, 60 and 61 stamped into them. You could build a frame with a 72° head tube and a 75° seat tube or vice versa.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=411358

I have 12 Motobecanes including two 1974 Grand Jubiles two 1974 Le Champions plus 1978, 1980 & 1982 Team Champions. There's no logic to the numbers stamped in the BB shells.

In addition I have two 1988 Peugeot Biarritz bikes with the same "serial numbers". My two 1984 Gitane TdFs are 68 numbers apart.

Probably the best way to guesstimate the age of these kinds of bikes is to try to match them up with similar models in the various catalogs on the internet.

Several other things to consider, all 3 of those companies produced models for specific markets i.e. France, The Netherlands, The UK, Germany, the East Bloc (Hungary, Poland etc.), the US, Canada, and Australia.

Sometimes they used the same model names for completely different bikes! Other times the model names, frame construction and components were made for specific markets.

Those companies substituted specs and components at will: les spécifications sont sujettes à modification sans préavis (specifications subject to change without notice).... :eek:

Add to that, 20 to 40 year old bikes frequently have had some or all of their components changed over the years: derailleurs, wheels saddles, bars, stems, pedals, brakes....

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Speaking of same model names, here is my Grand Touring. It seems to be different than the "Grand Touring" most commonly associated with. I'll take some serial shots soon. It is for 650b wheel size and has odd bolt on cantilevers. I received it as pictured sans bags and saddle.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2941/...bda111e4_h.jpg

My 2 cents-
Have never seen a bike with more numbering than my '78 Grand Sprint. Many various number groupings on the bb (five of them). In addition, angles stamped on lugs, V888 (for Vitus 888) on the down tube, and even a number stamped in the brake mount bridge.

I have a 74-ish, judging from the Reynolds stickers, Grand Record. The non-driver side rear DO is numbered (on the outside) 24705(9?)1 the ? is probably a 9 but mis-stamped. The right side rear DO also has a stamped number(on the inside) that leads me to believe that these are Campy numbers as they are both on the left side of the DO(s). They do not match. BB has 206 stamped twice.

Did they make a Grand Record in 72? Usually is some sort of rhyme and reason in manufacturing, old factory workers could be a help. Right now I'm trying to figure out the date and model of a 60s mixte but it is hard to find any information from that time.


Verktyg, can you post any of the non serial BB #s along with what bike they came from?

Looks like a 1960s, maybe early 70s French model. 650b wheels were primarily a French thing used on most urban transportation bikes and touring/randonneur models.

verktyg :50:

Chas.

The only thing Campy ever stamped in their dropouts was BREV. CAMPAGNOLO (BREV. meaning "patent" in Italy).

I've seen numbers stamped on the insides of Motobecane, Bertin and Gitane dropouts but I suspect that they were production batch numbers or maybe paint codes not "serial" numbers.

The French were not obsessed with things like serial numbers on their productions bikes. The life expectancy for bikes back then was far less than 10 years. Those manufacturers were interested in selling new bikes not catering to future collectors.

During the US Bike Boom of the early 1970s, there was also a mini bike boom going on in France and the UK. European bike manufacturers were pushing "10 Speed Racing Bicycles" out the door as fast as they could assemble and boxes them up. They hardly had time or interest in traceability!

As I mentioned in a post above, the numbers stamped in most French production bikes were probably manufacturing lots or order numbers for bikes built for specific importers like Ben Lawee in the US.

A few years back on the GitaneUSA.com website we tried to make sense of the numbers stamped in Gitanes. After about a year and a half we gave up because there was no rhyme or reason to them!

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Sorry [MENTION=390513]cavalier[/MENTION] but it I don't want to be rude and laugh at your question: "....old factory workers could be a help".

Motobecane went bankrupt in 1981 - that was 33 years ago! Yamaha took over the company for a while in the 1980s then it became MBK in 1984. The current Motobecanes are made in Taiwan and have no connection to the old company.

The old Motobecane production records for the hundreds of thousands of bikes they produced between 1923 and 1981 are long gone.

To answer you question about 1972 Grand Records, yes Motobecane made that model from at least 1970.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=411600

They made them in silver and black as well as yellow and black. The frames had campy dropouts but only the 3 main tubes were butted Reynolds 531. the forks and rear stays were some kind of carbon steel they called "Motobecane Tubing". The lugs were Nervex Professionals.

They had Stronglight 49 cranks, 27" alloy clincher rims (for the US and maybe UK markets) with Normandy Luxe Competition hubs. Campy NR derailleurs, Universal 61 center pull brakes and a Brooks Pro saddle. They came in 21", 23" and 24" sizes. The advertised weight was 25 Lbs.

Here's a yellow and black Grand Record. I always like this color combo and would like to find one in 21".

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=411601

This bike has Nervar alloy cranks but they usually came with Stronglight 49 cranks.

As I mentioned above, there's no rhyme or reason to the numbers on my Motos....

Hope this helps a little.

verktyg :50:

Chas.

Mine has the 531 forks. I think this helps date the bike to around 1975-6 (going by brochures).

[QUOTE=verktyg;17211763]Sorry [MENTION=390513]cavalier[/MENTION] but it I don't want to be rude and laugh at your question: "....old factory workers could be a help".

Now, now you are old enough to know better. Many of the younger workers from then are still kicking and pedaling. The same boom with record problems happened in music gear manufacturing and workers from the time have been helpful in sorting the old days out. I'll look for a French Motobecane site, maybe somebody can get grandpa or an uncle to a computer over there.

The 60s mixte I'm reviving has a Motobecane Pantin Decal badge on the front NO serial # I can find and looks similar to the flat bar low end Nomad pictured in the 74 catalog. Old Pivo stem, tall stem shifters and large wing nut style axle nuts, weinmann 610 centerpulls and cottered cranks.

[QUOTE=cavalier;17212340]cavalier.

Check out this Flickr site. The owner lives near Marseille and has a large collection of bikes. Scroll down to the Motobecane/Motoconfort pictures. He goes by the name "Pouf" and may be able to help you.

BTW Pouf le Cascadeur is a French comedian.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/poufth.../sets/?&page=1

(Motoconfort was a second brand that Motobecane offered in the 1970s to expand their dealer network. Most were probably sold in France and the UK. A few made it to the US, probably brought back by students and tourists)

verktyg :50:

Chas.

[QUOTE=verktyg;17214893]
Thanks Chas!

It looks like a good place to start.

Obviously you have to be very secure (and funny) to go about as Professor Pouf.....