Maybe some of you have seen this, but it's something to keep in mind when bidding or posting on ebay:

https://www.marginalrevolution.com/ma...oney_on_e.html

Personally, I pay a lot of attention to shipping charges, but I think the point of the study is that it doesn't matter if an individual does that; the group of bidders bid earlier, and this can cause a bidding war and thus a higher price...

I also wonder if the category of bidder matters in this case: like maybe those who purchase certain kinds of items are more likely to resent inflated shipping charges. Maybe?

I just watched a bike I'm seriously interested in get bid up to a pretty steep price with days to go on the auction. The two bidders in the bidding war are both new ebayers. Makes me wonder what it is they think they're doing. Personally, I'm figuring the shipping charges into my bidding decision.

I did get burned on one buy where I bought two items from the same seller, and there was almost no discount for combined shipping charges. I just assumed...

That may be true when selling items such as the music CDs and X-Boxes that were used in the Hossain's study, but I believe that the majority of the vintage cycle collectors here are a bit more intelligent when it comes to vintage parts bargains.

That is correct, I am insuating that the general purchasers of Britney Spears CDs and X-Box game consoles are not the most intelligent folks on this planet.


I myself, always keep shipping costs in mind when considering the purchase of an item. I found it rather amusing to read the first paragraph of that article, only to immidiately choose the former (the $10 purchase w/free shipping) as the better buy.

Additionally, when considering the purchase of an item from a seller, especially BIN items from Power Sellers and similar, I'll look through their entire current listings to see if they have listed the same item at a lower cost in another auction.

I dare say that I would have quicky noticed the price differences in the Hossain's study if I happened to be looking for an X-Box. Not that I am - I can't stand video games, or current music for that matter. I don't believe I'll be running into another eBay study of his anytime soon.

Frankly, I believe his study is quite limited by the very fact that he has only covered media that is popular mostly with the young public. Since a large diversity is not evedent, I do not believe his study is completely conclusive.

Take care,

-Kurt

When I surf on ebay for bike parts, the first thing I do is select 'distance, nearest first'. If I see an item I like that's close by, I contact the seller and ask if they will waive the shipping fee. I've picked up a half dozen items without paying for shipping and met a couple of good cyclists. The only loser with this approach is UPS and USPS.

Interesting and not surprising.However, as Cudak pointed out, it isn't really indicative of how members of an enthusiast forum like this one would bid.B Spears is a much younger demo. and many of them aren't using their own $$,so total cost isn't really much of a concern..
Forums are filled with guys who are looking for a great deal.They know all the latest prices etc, and will rarely go for an OK deal(and will never never admit it if they do).
Now sellers have a very good reason for inflating shipping costs(other than how much it costs to pack and to haul the item-at $2.50/gal-12 mpg-to the PO).The final fee is based on the winning price-not the shipping price.It makes lots of sense to put as much of the price as possible on the shipping fee.Of course Ebay usually gets a cut of this-Paypal- anyway.
Forums are never the best place to get max price.You have to be careful to not step on toes-seem greedy-etc.Ebay is where to go for the best selling price.
Yeah,jacking up the shipping price is usually a good idea for sellers on ebay.Of course,it can p _ _ _ some folks off and Ebay is supposed to frown on gross abuses (money out of their pocket,so they might actually do something about it).Thanks.Charlie

Not true. If the LBS bums me out in a deal, I raise hell everywhere complaining about it!!

-Kurt

I recently got burned on shipping on an item that was made to
appear as if it was coming form the UK. The shipping was charged
accordingly. When I got it, it came from the US....only about 4 states
away from me. For feedback, I said the item was good and delivered
on time but I mentioned the bogus charge and he wont leave me any
feedback for my prompt payment...

This was my point in wondering if it depends on what's being sold. HOWEVER, I would point out that with an auction situation, it only takes one rookie to start a bad bidding war. And I've seen quite a bit of vintage bike stuff being offered and bought at crazy prices. How many times have posts shown up with veterans on here saying, "Who's paying these prices?" And as someone else in the thread pointed out, we all have probably made some bad purchases--whether we've admitted it--from poor decision-making. I've fallen victim to the bidder's impulse on occasion.

One more thing; on the topic of people on a forum being experts--that's true, but that also means they tend to be more passionate about what they want. When it comes to rare and hard-to-find objects, this can be a detriment to 'rational' decision-making and setting a limit on one's buying price.

We may all think that this wouldn't apply to us, and we may choose to differentiate based on the product of the study, but I'd venture to guess there might be a bit of denial in that calculus. And I'm sure that on weighing this with our own experiences, out of the scads of purchases any of us might make a year, we're probably a lot more likely to remember those great deals than the bad ones. I do.

Cudak888, maybe you should post a response to this little post re: the particular media. It's a good point to consider, and might engender a follow-up study.

However, I think the most salient point to take away from this might be for selling: trying to minimize shipping charges by raising a reserve looks to be the poorer selling strategy.

I believe you are completely out of line here. The shipping cost that appears on the package is not necessarily all that was paid. Besides, the increased international shipping costs were easily identifiable. I have a friend in Italy who sells a lot on ebay. Rather than shipping everything directly from Italy, he ships everything to me in large shipments that give him cheaper transatlantic costs, to then be transshipped to the final purchaser. On a bike, a direct shipment from Italy is about 200 euros (about $250), instead making one major shipment of many bikes brings the transatlantic shipment down to about $150 plus another $40 within the US. The transshipment method therefore allows the buyer to actually save quite a bit of money. If you used your logic, you would say that $190 'ripped' you off, but the numbers don't bear out in reality. If the seller didn't make it clear that the shipment was coming from overseas and tehy then popped the extreme shipping cost, you would be correct.

^^^^I never said 'ripped off' and I dont want to belabor the
point here. Not knowing the specifics you are completely
wrong in your assumption. I am not stupid. The item was
shipped out of a store in Pennsylvania. Very close to where I
used to live. No emails answered as to why the deceptive
shipping charge when the confirmation email came saying
where the item was being shipped from only proves this point to me.

hmm, I believe also sometime sellers may be pushing the auction up with a second "new" ID. I came across this once with a seller whose all items had been repetitively bidded by the same new buyer id.
When asked, eBay do question IDs and do not seem to have clear terms against this practice.

Personally, I have no qualms about high shipping charges and packaging fees, provided they are clearly stated. It does take a lot of time, effort and materials to properly pack something like a bicycle. For me, it's worth the extra money to ensure that I get the bicycle in the same state that it left the seller. I've seen professional packaging fees that range from $20-$50 for a bicycle. You just have to compensate with your bid.

It doesn't even bother me on small items. Ebay constantly has their hands in the seller's pocket. They charge you a listing fee based on the starting bid price. Then there's a fee based on the selling price. If you take PayPal, they hit you a 3rd time. They are very greedy people, but then they have the world's biggest marketplace, so they can get away with it. If the seller inflates his shipping fee, provided it clearly stated, the buyers will adjust their bids accordingly. This puts more cash in the seller's pocket and less in eBay's. I can't criticize for them for trying to beat eBay at their own game, provided I'm aware of what they are doing. Maybe if everybody did this, eBay would get the message.

With rare exception everything I've ever bought on ebay I could get from a number of sellers over a couple week period. So I wait and go for the best total cost. And I avoid items that bidding went crazy and ran the price up early. For example, I got a motercycle vest a couple years ago from a seller that always has a few listed at the same time. They were going for 30 to 40 bucks every day. Then I caught one that no one was bidding on and won it for 18. Same vest, just for some reason no one noticed it. The best advice for ebay is don't be in a hurry.

SS

I think the study's results show this is true, but even more, that the purchase price en toto will increase. So the buyer over-adjusts, and it's actually MORE more cash in the seller's pocket. I think it's good to note this, and to be on the look out for a high shipping charge, though, because it may mean that the item itself will become subject to a bidding war, and that could end up burning you.



I agree with you about eBay's charges; they're kind of ridiculous. One time, I actually mailed a personal check and waited for it to go through, because I won a mechanical typewriter for about 9 bucks with shipping. I didn't want the seller to lose any more money on PayPal. The economy is ruled by the Middle-Man.

My grandfather once told me about selling strawberries at the trainstops when he was a kid. He priced his baskets "two for a nickel, three for a dime," and was amazed by the number of folks who jumped on the 3-for-a-dime "bargain."

I once had an eBay seller refund $15 of the shipping charges because it cost her less to ship the bike than she thought it would.

That's what you call a born salesman. He'd be an eBay naturl.

I've experimented with pricing comparable bikes on ebay: one starting at one cent (.01) with no reserve, and the other, starting the price considerably higher, upwards to $100; no difference in freight prices, just actual costs.

The bikes that have started at the low price invariably sell for more than the ones that I start at a higher opening bid. There seems to be a bidders mentality, and the prices are pushed up, and the auction usually ends with sniping.

The auctions that start higher usually have less bids, and I'm usually surprised that the final amounts aren't higher. Maybe it's wishful thinking...but I usually think the bikes are worth more than they bring.

The moral of this exercise should be start everything at a penny, save on the listing fee and make more money. But there's something in me that holds me back, makes me afraid that I'm going to sell one of my bikes for a penny... something that I'd prefer not to do. I know that they'll sell, but I'm having a hard time doing it that way.

Anyone have similar experiences?

John in Oregon

I use the same strategy, and I always have that knot in my stomach thinking I'll end up giving something away. Usually the low price attracts interest, and I've only given something away once-- but it wasn't a "desirable" item to begin with, so there was only one bid. Fortunately, it wasn't a bike.

- and going by the prices of vintage bike parts, what about bike enthusiasts?

(just kidding! and i think you're right about the pop music CDs and Software-from-Satan™ products)

:-)

- btw, i only use ebay for entertainment purposes...

I don't have an issue with your decision, and at many levels applaud it. I am just using it to discuss the more generic issue of excessive PayPal fees.

On a $9 purchase PayPal fee is $0.56 (it is true that the fees are proportionally larger for small purchases because of the up front $0.30)

With the Postage you paid, and the envelope it cost you at least $0.40. It is possible that $0.16 was spent on mileage to process the check by the buyer or seller. Why would we think that a seller likes dragging a check to the ATM to deposit it, checking to see if it cleared, and holding the item for an extra week, all to save $0.56?

When viewed from a convenience perspective the fees for PayPal can be esily eaten up with the hidden costs of doing it a different way.

Don't get me wrong, I have done things to assist a seller... and I do think the Postal Service provides a valuable service. Delivering a letter from you to anyone in the country for under $0.40 is an amazing deal...

In fact, I sent extra money once through PayPal in order to help with a new seller's shipping cost (the total of my bid and shipping was less than their actual shipping cost) If you feel bad on these small purchases, send the $0.30 fixed fee per item, and you decide whether to let them pay the 2.9%, or offer that too.

Bottom line, if a seller objects to the excessive fees, they don't need to accept PayPal. And if they find it is a convenient option, why should we decrease their convenience to save a few cents?

Good points. In my haste to be compassionate, I didn't really think it through. Also, having only sold one thing for a friend a long time ago, I couldn't really remember what the actual fee was, so I didn't offer to reimburse her that extra percentage. Had I thought of it, I would have done it. Thanks for the insight.

But btw, with recent changes to the check-cashing legislation, turn around on clearing a check is far quicker than the old standard of a business week.

But you're right, why give someone a crutch if they don't ask for it? FWIW, she never objected to my offer or reasoning, so I kind of think she preferred it this way herself.

And while I don't do it frequently anymore, I do enjoy dropping a real envelope into the post office box! Personally, I hate making choices purely on the criterion of convenience. If I did, I might be more efficient in life, but I also might just fill my days trying to do more inconsequential stuff.

I agree that hardcopy mail is the way to go at times, I just think as far as being cost effective, PayPal does OK.

There are indeed things more important than convenience... like in my riding and driving choices, there is safety. And of course human contact is (almost) always a good thing.

I'll let you in on a little secret... I hesitated to post my previous message because I do work in the IT department of a major quasi-governmental organization that sells stamps and performs delivery services to every address in the United States.

There's a guy in eBay selling a little bike part and charging 4x the item value for shipping. The item is a tiny tiny thin set of Belasi (sp??) cable protectors. They are very thin and you twist them on exposed cables to help prevent paint damage to frame from cables. The cost of item is usually less that $2 but the shipping is $8 or more !!!! The item is so small it could easily be put in a small envelope and sent first-clas mail for the cost of one stamp. That's the worst one I have ben involved in. I bought the item and seller was insulted I insisted the shipping was out of line. I sent his $1.50 for shipping and he sent it first class mail, and then complained about it in the feedback exchange !!!

Some guys advertise $80 - $100 to ship a bike. I'm in KY and have shipped FedEx to Oregon, WA, and CA for around $35. On the bikes I think those sellers are usually uninformed or think the only way to ship is UPS - which would be $80 plus.

That's really funny. Since you mentioned it, I'll bring up a couple of questions I've tried to figure out for a while.

1) A friend of mine told me a while back that the *S*S is actually a private or semi-private corp., not owned by the gov't. You describe it as quasi-governmental, which sounds like a confirmation of my friend's analysis. My friend pointed that fact out to explain why it is the price of stamps goes up. So I'm wondering, how is it quasi- and not fully governmental? Is it a private corp. or subsidized by the gov't? Kind of like the old public utilities? How does it all work?

2) And how do I get my nbhd p.o. improved (it's totally understaffed with horrible service--servicing mainly customers from the housing projects)? Here in NYC, if it's in Manhattan, it works fine, if it's in an outer borough, it's horrible. Who exerts the pressure at the top? Local representatives, senators, city hall, who? Political, business/consumer-oriented, profit, non-profit, what?