Long reach centerpulls
 

I need some very long reach centerpulls for my wife's Raleigh mixte because I'm replacing the 27" wheels with 700c tubular wheels. I've found Universal model 61s, Dia Compe 750s, Weinmann Vainqueur 999s and MAFAC Raids. Can somebody with experience with those brakes tell me which would be the best choice?

My Raliegh Carlton from 1965 with the Weinmans will reach my sew up wheelsets. Toe in and brake shoe choice are probably most important for stopping power. I put Dura ace centerpulls on my wifes Bridgestone 400 and am satisfied with stock pads and will probbly leave alone.

I've got a pair of those exact Weinmann's. Ten bucks if you decide to go that way. Both work well with strong springs. Cosmetically, front decal is totally worn. Rear decal is in nice shape. No brake shoes. Complete mounting hardware with all the brake bridges and nuts washers straddle cables etc. PM me if interested.

I use the Dia Compes on an old Raleigh, with the stock pads, and I like the way they work.

I'm a big Mafac fan and have them on several bikes, but I recently got a bike with Weinmann Vainqueur 999. I hate to admit it, but they seem better made. I've never had Universals. The Dia-Compe don't seem as pretty, though they probably work well enough..

I really like my "Schwinn Approved" Dia-Compe centerpulls. With aero levers and kool stop pads, they're all I need on my old Schwinn.

Another vote here for either Weinmann 999s or their DiaCompe clones, although I am happy with the Mafac Racer centerpull which graces the front of my UO-8. Whatever you do, get new cable housings, new center wires, and new KoolStop brake pads. Aero brake handles will generally boost your leverage by roughly 10 percent over their nonaero equivalents.

Dirtdrop,

I don't have too much experience with them, but I've got a box full of various ones if you want to paw through them....

I think I'll try mrmw's Weinmanns and add some genuine Mathauser pads. Weinmanns were original equipment on the bike. Somebody put some Shimano 600s on on it. They're too short and too modern for a 1975 frame.

Another strong thumbs up for the Wienmann/Dia-Compes. They are really excellent brakes despite their association with suicide levers. The calipers themselves are just great.

Two suggestions...

1) If you are running tires fatter than a true 1 1/4, consider using both QR cable hangers AND levers with QR mechanisms built in. This allows the calipers to open up for a 1 3/8 tire or even a knobbie. I can't picture how to do this on a mixte for the rear brake, but if you need to car rack the bike and need to take the FW on and off a lot, having the double QR system on the front makes life easier.

2) Consider using the Koolstop MTB pads. They allow you to adjust for rim width and toe-in. The latter is a really big deal as it's the difference between silent stopping and raise-the-dead squeeling. They also have a longer braking surface than the older Mathauser pads (or the KoolStop Continental knock offs).

Agreed, that's what I use with mine, and they do make life a lot easier because of the adjustable washers. The ones that give you the most clearance for wheel removal are called Kool Stop "Thinline" pads for v-brakes. Like most folks, I prefer them in the salmon color, which is the same compound as the old Scott-Mathauser pads. Another option is to get the cartridge-type shoes for v-brakes from Nashbar ($4.95 a pair, I think), and replace the cruddy black Nashbar cartridge pads with Kool Stop salmon cartridge refill pads. This way, brake pad changes in the future are as simple as removing the retaining pin from the old pad, slide the old pad out, slide new pad in, put new retaining pin in place. The Nashbar cartridge-holding shoes are chrome-colored, so they don't look bad on a vintage bike, IMHO.

I have a pair of the Dia-Compes that Rivendell sells matched to the non-aero Dia-Compe levers Riv also sells (the ones with a quick-release built into the levers). That set-up with the stock pads was not adequate, and scared the poop out of me at my first encounter with a bottom-of-the-hill stop sign. Switiching the Kool Stop pads made a huge difference, The set-up is now acceptable - not great, but acceptable. It still is not as confidence-inducing as my Shimano dual-pivots with aero levers. (The levers may be the difference at this point, but I have not had a chance to put that theory to the test.)

I'd say with any old-design brake on a rider (as opposed to a show-only bike) anywhere with hills hight that freeway overpasses, you gotta get some Kool Stops or Matthausers. Anbd if you put 'em on Dia Compes, be prepared for sqealing brakes for a while . . . . (Of course, if you ever used old Mafacs, you're already used to that.:rolleyes: )

Do some searching around the web for discussions of canti-lever adjustments with respect to creating different amounts of mechanical advantage.. Canti fans will point out that you can adjust the mechanical advantage with different yolk lengths.

My understanding of the situation is this....
More mechanical advantage = crisper feel to the brakes but less force applied to the rims
Less mechanical advantage = mushier feel to the brakes but more force applied to the rims.

C-pulls offer significantly less mechanical advantage than dual pivots. That's neither good nor bad. Just dramatically different feeling. Long story short, many people find that c-pulls feel mushier but actually stop with more force.

Here's a test to do on the work stand.. Squeeze the brake lever and look at the brake shoes. You'll see that the c-pull visibly squash the pad. That mushyness that you feel is the really the power of the c-pull caliper. With side pull brakes, you get a more immediate and solid feedback in the lever when you begin to compress the lever. At least, that's what I notice.

Less mechanical advantage = less force applied to the rims.

I have these Weinmann's on my '71 Raleigh Competition w/ upright bars and mtb levers. They work really well; the steel straddle gets rid of the extra slop of the centerpull hanger wire.

Neal

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/Weinmann1.jpg

Centerpulls actually are dual pivot brakes, but granted not the type that most folks think of these days when referring to dual pivot brakes...........I think the "mushiness" you refer to is most often caused by flex in the cable stops. If this is remedied, the mushiness usually goes away.

Hiya Dirtdrop,

I have a complete set of NOS NIB Weinmann Vainqueur 750's circa Jan. 1980. Set includes cables, quick release levers, and hardware. PM me if interested.

Woops, I got it very much backwards!!

Yes, yes. More mechanical advantage means more power and more mushyness in the feel of the brake lever. See Sheldon Brown's excellent write up here. In particular, he addresses this in the "Feel vs Function" section.
http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

IME, caliper brakes go from lower mechanical advantage (feel crisper) to higher (feel mushier) as follows:
+ Single pivot side pulls
+ Dual pivot side pulls
+ Centerpulls

As Sheldon (and others) note, canti brakes have adjustable mech advantage when you adjust the straddle cable to different lengths. Longer means less. Shorter means more. I think this suggests why Weimann/DiaCompe c-pulls can feel mushy. They have comparatively short straddle cables and hence even more mech advantage.

If the OP is using modern Aero style levers, which them selves have more mech advantage than non-aero levers, then he's adding even more mushiness to the system. Sheldon correctly warns that too much mech advantage and you can bottom out the lever on the bars before the brake is at full power.

My c-pulls are set up with similar vintage non-area levers. They feel mushy compared to my single pivot side pulls but they definitely stop fast. And again, following Sheldon's observations in his essay (above), the difference the 2 brakes compress the shoes is quite visible on the work stand.

Sorry for the confusion. I got it way wrong on that other post!!

The OP is using upright-style levers on North Road bars and is such a retro grouch that he would never even consider putting aero levers on a 1975 Raleigh Super Course.

<chuckle>

Hey Dirtdrop, nothing wrong with that approach!!

One thought though... sometimes some of those older upright style brake levers have limited amount of throw/cable travel. You may bottom out your brake levers against the grips.

Definitely try the Koolstops first.

I'll be using Mathauser pads. Koolstop got the formula for the salmon pads from them. The secret was adding rust to the mix.