top506

'Market value' is what an item fetches on the block on any given day. Ride without guilt.
Besides, it'll cost as much as your purchase price to replace that rear brake
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pastorbobnlnh 

May I pronounce a Scwhinn blessing?

In the name of Ignaz, Adolf and Richard, Father, Partner, and Grandson, may Blank Crows and his beautiful chrome P-13, ride great distances upon many smooth miles of asphalt and find many happy hours of enjoyment together. So beit!

How's that East Hill? And yes, it is most certainly a Paramount. The lugs and the serial number are proof.

skyrider

Fair deal. You saved a bike from a life of physical and mental abuse. You are giving it an oppurtunity to grow to its fullest potential and not the scrap heap it were it obviously would of ended up.

East Hill

Or, if the same bike had been in the thrift shop, would we be having the same philosophical discussion about it?

The question about:
"Next time I see a poor single mom struggling to feed her children
I may just offer to buy her decrepit home for what seems like a great amount of money to her
the money will buy food and get her into a nicer place

I'll tear down that shack knowing I can sell the land to a developer for 10x what I paid for it
Am I good guy for helping her out as much as I did"

is most interesting. I am living next to a house which has been for sale, and been sold five times at least since I have lived where I do. The house originally sold for $13,000 in 1970. It resold for $68,000 in 1983. It resold in 1987 for $100,000. It sold again for $125,000 in 1990. In 2002 it sold for $185,000. In the last year it has been sold three times. It started at $215,000 and is now listed for around $400,000.

East Hill

East Hill

Ah, that's good.

The point I was making was that unlike Scooper, or yourself, BlankCrows couldn't be certain that he really had a Paramount. I know I would have to come back and do some research, and just because it had a Schwinn headbadge does not mean it couldn't come off a real (trashed) Paramount. The truth is, BlankCrows had to research the serial number before he could verify that the bike was a Paramount.

Scams are all around us. BlankCrows could have fallen for a scam, and then there would be no discussion. Bigbossman could take a look at it and have to break the bad news that there's front end crash damage, just as in my little red mixte. So BlankCrows could be out $80. But the gentleman at the thrift shop would still have $80.

East Hill

ebbett

Wow, that's quite a find. An early 70's chrome Paramount took first place in the vintage bike contest at SF Veloswap - original owner too.

Scooper

Thanks. Yes, this one was one of two 1972 chrome Paramounts at Veloswap in SF. Mine is a P15 touring model with relaxed geometry and a triple chainring. The one that won first prize was a P13 professional road racing bike. It was strange seeing two relatively rare chrome Paramounts competing when there were only fifteen bikes in the competition.

I had a nice chat with the owner of that bike. He had correct tubulars and original wheels (I have clinchers and Open Pros on mine), he had Weinmann hoods while I had put some Dia-Compes on mine (the next day I replaced them with Weinmann hoods), and he had all original components while I had replaced my rear GT300 derailleur with a new carbon Record long cage. I'm glad the judges gave him first prize; his was a flawless example.

Rabid Koala

This is the kind of find that I can only dream of! Very nice find. Clean it, ride it, enjoy it!

I'd be happy to rescue any Paramount for that price. Better to be sold for $80 than left outside to rot, get stolen or to eventually wind up in a dumpster.

John E

If I determine that modern Shimano dual-pivots do indeed provide more braking force, I plan to sell my pair of Campag. calipers, but they use a recessed mounting system, and I suspect you need longer mounting shafts for conventional external nuts.

John E

I paid only $20 for my 1959 Capo about 10 years ago, but made up last year by paying full market for the 1960. Of course, the latter did have the original paint and chrome and almost all of the original components.


My only concern regarding the Paramount in this thread is that it may have been stolen from its rightful owner somewhere along the line, but that could be true of many of the bikes currently owned by C&V forumites. I have rarely been able to do a "title search" on any bicycle I have bought used, but I have always dealt with sellers who SEEMED reputable and genuine.

sfinster

I need a front brake for my 1966 Paramount Track bike. If you will be shopping for a new Campy brake set (since you need a rear caliper), I could be willing to share the $ to obtain a front brake.

joe v

Whoever came up first with the inverted dropbars idea should -if he still be alive - be put in a
time-machine and transported back in time to appear before the spanish inquisition. At least.

cudak888 

BlankCrows, that is a beautiful machine. My size too, but I won't hint about trying to convince you to sell this one to me . Enjoy it.

Incedentally, don't listen to Sunofsand. You're happy and the seller is happy, that's all there is to it. So it is worth more on eBay. Big deal, these machines aren't worth the prices they bring on eBay.

I dare say, had this been a comparable machine wearing a name other then "Schwinn Paramount," $80 might have been looked upon as a rather high offer.

It is worth what someone is willing to pay - and personally, I wouldn't have given anything over $80 for this one myself - replacing that Varsity wheelset with a reasonably authentic set is going to be an expensive pain in the Brooks.

Incedentally, is there some inexplicable reason that tattered Paramounts always seem to aquire these Varsity wheels? Is it some conundrum that makes hole-in-the-wall bicycle shops replace wrecked Paramount wheelsets with that from Varsitys?

-Kurt

cyclotoine

probably somewhere someone just thinks the alloy rims are shot because they are out of true and puts the junk steel on. Oh well, I think it's just good bike karma that Blackcrows got this bike. I recently made a trade with him and felt he was very generous in doing an even trade, I always offer to equalise things with cash if person I am trading with feels there stuff is worth more than what I have. Enjoy cleaning the paramount. You can spend time learning about the campy bits by completely dismanteling them rubbing them with a bit of metal polish once you clean them and reassembling. I have done several brake sets, several front derailleurs and a couple nuovo record rear derailleurs, the result is spectacular and you will have a great sense of pride when you are done. looking forward to the after pictures.

gwhunter

Remember it's still an OLD BIKE !! I would have paid 5.00 for it at the GW I go to.. 80.00 dollars !! The guy made a killing on it as far as I'm concerned. I would have offered less ) Nice bike...

BobHufford

I usually just reply that I can't be both the buyer and seller and that they need to start off with a price in mind and then I'll counter offer. It is their item and if they don't research it prior to selling (very easy to do in today's world) then I don't feel it's my place to do so.

If I'm not buying, then I'm happy to tell you more than you want to know ...

Bob

cudak888 

^
+1. Sound advice, my friend.

-Kurt

mastershake916

So am I going to see it at the kitchen any time soon?

PSYCLONE

$80 is going to by that fellow a lot of malt liquor, so I think he made out okay

bigbossman 

OK - Bill brought the bike to me this afternoon, and we stripped it down completely.

Short story - IMO Bill paid what it was worth, given its' present condition. There is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between worth and POTENTIAL worth. I would've offered $60, and probably stopped at $100 if pressed.

Longer story - The bike was FILTHY, and gummed up everywhere. The shifter levers were duct-taped in place, because the binder blocks were missing. Both dérailleurs were seized, and the seat post was stuck (we got it out). There are a few dings and dents, and one or two places where the chrome is flaked off. The BB cable hanger came off in two pieces when touched, the bike was wearing a steel Schwinn Varsity wheelset, is missing the rear brake caliper, and has crash damage - bent bars and severely scratched levers. All the cables and housings (those that remained) are shot. The saddle is history. Both the BB and the headset need to be rebuilt - we could not get the BB out, but it is evident that it is dry inside. The headset races are fine.

That being said, the frame is sound and straight. It will polish up to be very pretty indeed. The cranks and dérailleurs should clean up very well and be operable once again. Bill needs (at minimum) to find bars, brake levers, a rear brake caliper, bar-cons, a BB cable hanger, a good set of wheels/tires, and a saddle. Might as well toss in new bearing packs all around, and cables/housings, too.

This bike will be beautiful once again, but it will take some money, a lot of time, and a lot of effort. It will be worth it.

pastorbobnlnh 

In the end all the hard work will be rewarded with that great feeling of having accomplished a significant restoration. I know this feeling well. Best of luck in your guiding Bill to Paramount bliss!

cudak888 

You couldn't get the BB out? With Park tools? That's enough for me...

-Kurt

bigbossman 

Yeah, the BB lock ring was seized up pretty good, and the notches were rounded over just enough to not allow the tool good purchase. I'd rather he let a LBS pull it out rather than me taking a chance peeling off chrome or buggering up the notches further - should be cheap enough.

vjp

Historically, dropbars were used in the drop and in the upright position (although with the bars turned so that the ends face the rider). It was common in Europe for retired racers to flip the bars up on their old iron and ride down to the espresso bar in all their patina'd glory.

I say, "good score" on the bike, it isn't a morality/ethics call.

vjp

kemmer

This is the second time I've seen you pop into a thread and condemn the op for what you view as a moral trespass. This is also the second time nobody agrees with you. Doesn't that say something to you? I'm sure you enjoy your life of purity, and I think you enjoy pointing out peoples "shortcomings" and "moral failings" even more. Next time just keep your "thoughts" to yourself or present them in a less judgemental tone. Going off on a multi paragraph rant cause someone scored a sweet bike is rude, not to mention completely off topic.