Japanese frame
 

Hi all,
I am looking for a nice Japanese frame to build up into a decent, moderately priced racer for my schools cycling club. Hopefully a pre-1980 bike.
Does anyone know of any good manufactures, or things I should look for in Japanese frames?
I welcome all suggestions.
Thank you,
Ladule

What size are you looking for - and where the heck is Swat Bubble?

I may be completely wrong about this, but it's going to be hard finding pre-1980 Japenese bikes that are of high enough quality to race. I don't believe it was until the early/mid 1980s that Japanese makers finally 'got it' and started making higher-quality, race-worthy frames and components (1st gen dura ace brakes had 'safety' levers).

Anyhow, if you're definitely wanting Japenese steel, the Centurion Ironman bikes seem to be on sale all over the place. It might also be fairly easy to find a nicer Nishiki or Fuji. There's really nothing much to look for in terms of the quality of Japenese frames that you wouldn't look for in any other frames. A lot use Tange tubing, which I don't have any complaints about.

Not to knock a pre 80's frame, but the Japanese frames mid 80's with top Tange or Ishiwata tubing are a great value, and most if not all would have 126mm rear dropout spacing.

panasonic frames made from the TANGE 1 level tubing (forgot the US equivalent name) like my panasonic PR500 are REALLY great. I have been using mine as a daily commute and I ABSOLUTELY love this frame. It rides GREAT.

I'd look for a Miyata from the late '80s myself, something along the lines of a 512/712/912/Team/Pro.
But there's nothing wrong with the Ironman either. I'm building one up myself.
Top

Another good maker was Bridgestone and their frames from the early to mid-80's should be available at reasonable cost since they predate the "cult status" RB-series. I'd look for 500 or above series frames as the 400's were butted Cr-Mo main triangles but had Hi-Ten stays and forks.

My Fuji is a late 80's Ishiwata steel frame and the ride is right on par with any Reynolds or Columbus tubed bike. The spacing is also 130mm which allows for modern cassettes.

I have a Japanese Bianchi from the 80s that is very nice. It's not a Japanese make, but the thing is very nice....

Good Luck finding a pre-70's frame. I've been looking for one for over 9 months and have yet to find one in m,y size. The closest I came to was a Panasonic Pro awhile back on EBAY but it was in a 62cm. I needed a 58-60. I already have most of the components for the build Suntour Superbe, Tange Levin headset, Fujita/BELT saddle. Good Luck

Judging by some of the keywords: "decent" "Moderately-priced" and your joining a club, so presumedly NOT looking to be racing for money...I'd agree with Majikman and steer toward the "post 1980" Japanese offerings. I think that's where the bargains, that will suit you, are. I'd look at high-end Univegas (made by Miyata) as well as Schwinns (made by Panasonic) and even consider the early Specialized bikes like Allez, though you may be dipping into Taiwanese if you go there. Down a few posts, there's a guy asking about his Schwinn Peloton, JP made with Columbus SL/SP tubing: that's a bike you could ride as-is or spread the rear to allow for a light, modern wheelset...and that's the upgrade that would make any of the above more "competitive", bet you can find one of them at a good price!
Centurion Ironmen, Nishiki, JP Bianchis, Fujis, Bridgestones without the cult cache...all good choices, too.

pretty good japanese steel thread (opinions, brands, etc.) :

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...japanese+steel

:beer:

Swat Bubble, PA is just south-west of Philadelphia, located in Swarthmore.

^^^ Who'd have thought there was a place on this earth called Swat Bubble... and that one of its residents is a Gooner (an Arsenal fan) - small world, they're my local team.

Fuji had some very good steel alloy bikes made in the 1970s and early 1980s whose tube sets were made by Ishiwata. You can identify some by the decals. Some can be identified by "Ishwata" being stamped on the steering tube. Ishiwata is every bit as good as Columbus and Reynold 531 of teh same period. Tange made some good stuff, too, but, I would put my money on an Ishiwata frame, then, go from there.

Well, you haven't said what you're looking for, really, in terms of size or riding needs. Here's one that nobody has bid on yet: Univega Specialissima.

The Specialissima is a very high quality Japanese-made touring bike. There was also a Super Strada frameset on eBay the other day. And a Fuji Touring Series IV that already ended, and a Nishiki Ultra Touring that's still available...

So what are you looking for?

We've got a Swatara, and Boiling Springs (High School Team name "Bubblers") nearby.

Knowing the size you're looking for would help us point out some specific bicycles that might work for you.

Blue Order - not sure that Univega would work - it's got braze-ons for cantilevers. Might work as a cross frame though.

The Swat Bubble is what us students of Swarthmore College call our campus.

This bike-1977- has a Sekai 4000 Champion butted tube frame. It rides very nicely, but the lug work is a bit crude by comparison the Brit or Italian 531 or Columbus tubed bikes of the day. It cost $150 for the frame, the 531 frames were about $300 then.
The points on the lugs on the top tube never seemed to be centered; maybe you can tell from these pictures.
Despite not being as pretty(frame is fully chromed under the black paint-might strip it one day) it is a good, very durable frame. I have even modifed the fork and seat stays to take bigger tires. I don't advise doing that-it might break one day.
Luck,
Charlie

From personal experience, I cannot recommend circa 1970 double-butted Ishiwata CrMo, but by the late 1970s the Japanese were producing some world-class frames. Late 1980s Tange Prestige II seems to be a very decent tube material.

I can't believe no one has mentioned "Blueball "or "Intercourse" PA yet! These are two real places in South Eastern PA!

Yep, you're right. Somehow, I missed the OP's comment that he wanted a racer. That Super Strada would have been perfect though. Still no word on the OP's frame size.

Univega Gran Rally. Not sure if it's racing geometry, or sport touring geometry, though...

I sold one of these not too long ago on CL. Nice bikes. Mine came with Shimano 600 group. Sold for over $200.

If your willing to put down some cash, yellow jersey still imports panasonic frames from Japan. They have a super nice Touring bike frame right now. No racer, but super cool. Lugs and all–- and you can take it apart.