I gotta definitely agree with that one, and I've seen it happen in motorcycles. Just try to find a complete, somewhat near original 70's Triumph or 70's/80's Harley-Davidson nowadays considering that everybody just had to personalize, maybe even customize or chop, those bikes back when they were new. Bicycles are going to be no different. Ten, fifteen years from now it's going to be very difficult to find a complete original bike that isn't a very high end Masi or the like.

Second problem with fixies, which I find a bit more pervasive to the collector than the last paragraph: Most of the people building them are young and living in the city. Which means most of these frame are going to get beat - badly, both through normal wear and tear from city streets which are usually less than ideal, and from the usual 20-something behavior of acting like some form of maniac (trust me, I was there, too, 30 years ago). Now, if we're talking something along the lines of a Raleigh Gran Prix, no screaming loss, as there were a lot of them made - although they're getting more difficult to find nowdays. However, my teeth start to clench at the thought of this happening to a 531 double-butted frame, or equivalent. And it really goes off the scale thinking about an actual track frame, which until the last couple of years were always rarer than the road frames.

To each there own, I guess. Just the same, as a vintage collector who's watched Honda CB750's with the original four pipe exhaust sell for two grand more than an equivalent bike with a period aftermarket exhaust, I'm watching a lot of future collectibility go down the tubes for a 20-something affectation. Which will probably burn out on about five years, after which a lot of nice but beat-to-uselessness frames will end up on the junk pile, lost forever.

But sykerocker, that means all of us with our original 531 bikes will be sitting on a gold mine, right? My wife hopes so, anyway

And 25+ years ago, I was one of those who chopped a '69 BSA Rocket 650.

Yes to the former. And I'm hoping you're right. Probably are, considering what the 1930 Indian Scout sitting in my garage currently prices out at.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! to the latter. And did it run any better (er, less worse) after the modifications?

While no fan of hacking vintage bikes to pieces for fixed gear conversions , I have no problem with a 20 something taking an old road bike and riding it enjoying it regardless of make or model or configuartion. If they take off the orignal componets, what is the crime? No one here has ever purched a used component that was not attached to a peroid correct bike? In fact it is how many folks here complete thier projects.

I used to collect vintage guitars until I realized I could only play one at a time and the managing of the collection was eating into the time acutally spent playing. It is why I limit my bike ownership to 3. I have often wondered when I see pics on this site of people with many, many bikes how much riding gets done?

I have also pulled many very nice functional bicyles out of the trash and sold/given to "hipsters". I would rather that the bikes get used than end up in a land fill or melted down and tuned into a Kia Sorrento. I also take all non-saleble bike items and give to the Neighboorhood Bike works in Philly so people who don't have bikes and need transportation can bulid thier own bike. Should I hold on to that Suntour VX deraileur for the next 25 years so it becomes worth more or give it to some one who can use it now on a non-"correct" bike? I choose the latter.

I can understand that if you are a serious collector, building a collection to eventually bequest to or start a museum why this type of thing would bother you. Other than that, I think the kids should have thier fun. I for one have done many stupid things regarding collectabilty of items thoughout my life, it however did not dimninsh my enjoyment at the time. YMMV

As I sit here and read posts and ponder, it occurs to me that this whole thread is just a bit silly. I'd wager that very few bicycle collectors have a truly substantial amount of money tied up in their vintage bicycles. Yes, I know of a few people who might have more than $20,000 of "investment" in vintage bicycles, but that certainly isn't why I'm in the hobby.

I have a total of 8 bicycles, six of which are vintage road bikes. Each of the six is a great rider, but I doubt I could sell any of them for more than $500.00. I care much more about being able to keep them in sound, rideable condition than I do about how much I could sell them for.

I think most of us are here for fun, not "investment", but I still think it's nice to get back to original if possible. none of mine meet that standard - some are close, at least period, and fun to ride.

sykerocker - my BSA rode better only because now it had a straight frame, the rear was trashed when I bought it. never quite completed it to my satisfaction, and left it in charlottesville after b-school. wonder where it is now?

+1!

That is one sweeeet Scout there Syke!

I'm assuming that the one on indianmotorbikes.com is yours.
How many "Syke's" can there be?

I completely agree.

+1!

Plus it would probably bring in more $$$ to part-out a "nice" bike than to sell it complete.

I've got two bikes that I would consider collectible, a late 70's Mondia Super and a mid 80's Merckx Professional.

The Mondia is more or less equipped "as I found it" - that is, it was a bike that had obviously been raced hard and wrecked a few times. Consequently, I doubt it was "original" when I found it, and so I had no qualms about having it repainted/restored to a more pleasing aesthetic state. During the rebuild I replaced damaged parts with period correct replacements, and had the original Campy hubs laced to new rims. Keeping in mind that even "original" condition Mondia's do not garner a lot of collector interest, it is most probably not worth what I have in it in terms of resale. but it looks pretty sharp and it rides very well.

The Merckx Professional I bought precisely because it was "all original" (save the saddle and tires). It even came with a replacement roll of factory bar tape and original Silica frame pump. This bike is in VERY presentable cosmetic shape, and perfect mechanical state. I could easily sell it tomorrow for well more than I paid for it, and eventually that is what will happen to it. Keeping in mind that vintage "all original" Merckx's DO garner collector interest, it'll be a cold day in hell before I change out anything on this bike without CAREFUL consideration. Besides, it's a pretty snappy ride as-is.

I think it is important to make a distinction between bikes that are in demand, and those that are collectible. For instance, I could sell any old crappy Peugeot around here for at least $100 as long as it is ridable. Run of the mill vintage Treks are in demand as well, and even mediocre examples sell well. But, they sell well because they have a reputation as good, solid, usable, well built bikes - not because they are rare or collectible.

As for the bikes I ride - well, I side with USAZorro. I equip them as I see fit, to suit my tastes and intended use. That is why that pretty vintage Palo Alto frame is going to get built up with modern Campy 10 speed. I'm gonna ride the ***** out of it, and I want to have fun doing it.

I had 2 what I would call all original bikes (with exception of tires/saddle).
The first was my Trek 670, 1985 model which I bought with all OEM equiptment
still on it. The tires were dry rotted and the saddle was in the worst shape I have
ever seen, leather cover gone and the foam dry and crumbly. While cleaning and tuning it
up I replaced the bar/stem combo with a set of Modolo that matched the brakes that were OEM.
The campy NR gruppo had all matching dates (1984) and they stayed on the bike.
When I sold it (to another BF member ) I replaced the bar/stem with the original which I kept.
I replaced the saddle with the same model that came standard with the bike (Concor).
The other original bike is my 74 RIH, it has campy N.R. derailleurs. brakes hubs etc. but a SR super
mighty crankset (very typical of dutch bikes). The saddle also was a mess (unica nitor buffalo)
so I replaced that with a san marco regal. that and tires are the only changes I will make to
this bike, ever.
all the others I put whatever I feel like on them at the time I'm building it up, and sometimes
even that changes.
The only caveat I have for my bikes is that they are safe (i.e. no imminent failures).

collector? nah, more of an enthusiast.

marty

My very few is a relative term. Take a look on Ebay today-I did. There is a trek steel lugged -true temper I think-with no bids at $199 with Shimano 600 components. It might fetch $300, but it is much more valuable better than the average 20 yo steel lugged trek..
For 20 year old lugged steel treks you will have 10-20 going for under $300 for everyone going for over $300.Ebay "sells" the best treks and the average trek there-20 yo-wil be under $300.
Show me otherwise. Do a search of old trek 531 listings-they are the cream of the crop-many are under $300. There are many old treks of that vintage that sure as heck aren't 531.
I'm not saying they aren't nice bikes-they are bargains,but folks here tend to be collectors who overestimate the worth of their bikes(except when they are selling of course).
Luck,
Charlie

Just checked Ebay. I searched completed listings Trek 531 .This is the cream of the crop. It is for the last 10 sales, F= frame only maybe with HS,crankset CB-complete bike
$85 =F under $300 as cb
$99 =CB
$405 =f waaay over $300 as cb-maybe $800??
$209 =cb
$52 F under $300 as cb
$177=F over $300 as cb maybe $350??
$590 =CB
$202=CB
$260= CB
$47 =F under $300 as cb
It looks to me like 3 of the 10 would be $300+ bikes,one would be an $800 bike,and one is a $590 bike.The rest are ~$200 cbs-real bargains for 531 cbs.I didn't check the shipping-if the $99 bike had a reasonable shipping($60-$70) it is a heck of a deal.
The 531's are cream of the crop. I like old steel Cr-Mo mtbs for the same reason I would love these-cheap quality-can't beat that. If I was less gimpy,I would stock up on these bikes, but I need big soft tires.These bikes probably sold for $300+ 1980 dollars(maybe $700 current dollars). You can now buy them for maybe $250 on average for the CB. The decent MTB CR-MO of late 80 early 90's are even cheaper-maybe $125 at best for a $500 bike and many are waaaay under $100.
Luck,
Charlie
PS I don't get the SS fixed gear interest, and sure as heck have no interest in taking off braze ons, so I eventually have to use cheezy cable clamps, or my zip ties.

1. Made the connection between Fixed conversions and chopped/racked MC's too!

2. What is killing the fixed conversions is that some people are cold setting the frames to 120 mm OLD or even 110 OLD. There are even people removing (by any hackery means you can think of) all the braze-on's and down tube derailleur bosses. That is kinda hard to recover.

3. In answer to what will sink the value of a bike, I would propose that this is a major torpedo

Yeah, it's a honey, and it was free. No, I'm not kidding, it belonged to my father-in-law who's 87 and can't ride it anymore. Not that I'm doing any better, I think I've put 20 miles on it in the last three years. Try riding a motorcycle where NOTHING is where you'd expect it to be, except for the wheels, handlebar and engine. Toss in a total loss oil system with a hand pump . . . . .

And you wonder why I love vintage bicycles so much? At least a 1930 Rudge rides in the same manner as my '03 Fuji, much less my vintage stuff.

Hi Marty:

An 84 560 and an 84 850 MTB.

LOL!!! So true, So true.,,,,BD

wow I wish I still had my dead stock '81 Honda CB750!!

I do still have an '86 Trek 500 (531 main tubes). U huys sayin' by '86 they weren't made in USA anymore? (It has big "USA" decals - but then my 93 Marin mtb had an American flag on the top tube, and "made in Tainwan" hidden under the BB shell!

+1 I'd love a whole stable of bikes but they need to be ridden and kept going. rust and solidified grease ain't pretty.

Besides, the sooner the old stuff is depleted the sooner we'll have a good excuse to go buy new steel bikes! (what do premium maker old school lugged steel road bikes start at in '07? $3K?)

re: ebay pricing don't forget the hefty shipping fees affect what people will be willing to bid.

My guess on the average the same bike will fetch more on CL, where a buyer can inspect, test ride and take home sans shipping.

I'd use ebay to sell parts and a frame/fork but never a complete bike. I did it a few times and it was a p.i.t.a.

I paid $200 for my 86 531 trek and have seen them fetch up to $300 on CL in NYC. More if full 531 (mine is main tubes only), and only a little less if 501 Reynolds, oddly enough. If looking at 501 Treks I'd say some of the better quality I****awa Japanese bikes of the same era are a better deal.

For the record, my trek has been updated twice - once with some more modern roadie parts (different size stem and bars, aero levers, clipless peds, new brake pads, tires and bar tape), and after I bought a newer Roadie, has been downgraded to a flat bar commuter/hybrid. I kept all the original parts after the first re-do but once I got it flat barred and dialed in, I reckon it's a keeper/user/beater/whatever. Great bike, and I not only sold the original parts (forgive me, BF bretheren) but the first set of aftermarket stuff too.

Ironically, as several old threads on here will attest, I was advised (wisely) not to try and make the old bike into something it was not. This was a dismal failure when I tricked it out all Lance style. However, in its current commuter makeover, it is really shining out, to quote Chloe/Nancy.