what is the chance that the spokes on a tubular wheel will be the right length or close to it to swap over to a clincher given everything else is the same ie: spoke pattern

Been there ... done that. I easily and successfully laced a pair of 700C Campagnolo Omega rims onto the Campagnolo Gran Sport low-flange hubs and spokes of a tubular wheelset. As long as the inside diameters of the tubular and clincher rims are very close, it should work.

thanks john, i recently acquired a lovely Marinoni track bike, it has a beautiful set of campy record track hubs laced to some Nisi tubular rims. the tires definetly need replacing although i did ride it at the track on the weekend but i could hear the old glue cracking and popping and i thought i might be further ahead to just switch everything over to a clincher rim. i will likely give it a go.

Go with clinchers. Tubulars are obsolete and forget about patching them in the rain if you get a flat. In the old days, the pros raced with tubulars because clincher technology still had a ways to go but today clincher road tires are good or even better than tubulars - and a lot safer.

The critical measurement to determine if you can reuse the old spokes with the clincher rims (assuming you're going to reuse the old hubs that were used with the tubular rims) is the Effective Rim Diameter (ERD). If the tubular rim and the clincher rim are both in the spoke length calculator databases (like spocalc) and they both have the same ERD, you can reuse the spokes. If the ERD difference between the tubular rims and the clincher rims is more than a millimeter or two, it's unlikely you can reuse the spokes; they'll either be too short or too long (you'll bottom out the spoke threads on the nipples before achieving adequate spoke tension).

If the ERD of one or both rims isn't in the database, you can measure the ERD:



Illustration from Wheelbuilding, 3rd ed. by Roger Musson.

ERD will determine if the spokes are a compatible length. I would also worry about the overall age and condition of the spokes. Obviously the older the spoke, the greater fatigue and they will be more prone to failure. It may be worth the money to invest in new spokes.


Please don't perpetuate the tubular myths. First, in addition to the old days, pros today almost exclusively use tubulars. If you check VeloNews, you will find examples of tubulars rebadged to Michelin, a company that doesn't make tubulars.

If I am in the rain, I am not going to patch clincher on the road. Hell, if it is sunny, I am not going to patch a clincher, I will replace the tube and fix the flat at home. Arguably, swapping a tubular on the road is faster than swapping the tube from a clincher.

Tubulars are lighter than clinchers. Period. Granted that difference really only matters to a pro, but there are a lot of weenies on this forum who may disagree.

Some say the ride is better, I tend to agree but that is pretty subjective.

Finally, I would much rather flat on a tubular at high speeds, they are much more likely to keep rubber on the road than a clincher. If you want, I probably could find a picture of the ag2r rider who had a nasty crash on clinchers at the Giro. So no, a clincher is not safer.

I see only three possible downsides to tubulars; They are pricey compared to clinchers. Set-up time is longer than clinchers, it doesn't matter to me but it may matter to some. Patching a tubular is a pain in the ass but I can pay a guy $16 to do it for me - I guess that goes back to my pricey point so there are really only 2 inconveniences with tubulars .

iab,

thanks for that, I was going to go all Jerry Springer on that post. . .
but then y'all know what I think about tubulars.

Terrors,
get a copy of spocalc and let it determine the spoke length for both wheelsets.
(i.e. hub and Nisi rims and hub and clincher rims).
personally, I'd just buy new tubulars and glue them on (I like conti sprinters on the boards ).

Marty

Most pros still race on tubulars today. In some ways clinchers are more convenient, but I'd have to disagree with you about them being safer. *we have a whole thread that gets into this.

OP - what matters is the relative ERD (effective Rim Diameter) - which is the distance from the point where one spoke's nipple is seated against the rim, through the center of the rim, to the opposite seating point. If these distances are within 1.5mm, there's a very good chance you can use the same spokes. If the difference is more than that, the correct spoke size for the clincher rim will need to be calculated. I prefer the calulator at www.dtswiss.com to spokecalc.

<edit> I see I came late to the party, and without the pretty pictures that Scooper brought.

The safety issues are different with clinchers than tubulars -

Descending on a hot road with clinchers you have to watch out for blowouts; with tubulars you have to watch out for glue melting and tire creep. But a front tire flat going around a curve - yeah I'd rather be on a sewup; clinchers are much more likely to go instantly flat and sewups are more likely to take their time losing pressure.

And patching tubulars is a pain but it's a bit of craftsmanship and history and I kind of like it. I'd be on tubulars all the time if it weren't for the cost.

many thanks for all the info guys i sure got a few things to think about and new things to try out.

Please stop with the tubular myths! If a tubular has any disadvantage over a clincher, it's because you have to learn a technique that might not be as automatic as changing a clincher. I'm still riding tubulars because it's what I know and what I'm comfortable with going back 35 years.

Actually, if anything in modern cycling technology has disappointed me, it's 700c clinchers. I find no advantage on the road over tubulars, and they're a pain in the butt to fix out in the middle of nowhere compared to a tubular. Having to carry tyre levers, bah!

Tubulars are not obsolete - they're just an additional technique that a lot of cyclists don't want to bother learning. Their loss.

I love my tufo tubulars! I may change my mind if I ever have a flat since they're not repairable.

Note to self: never bash tubulars on the C&V thread.

BLASPHEMER

Instead of cutting the spokes so you have a large gap andf three items all to keep straight, use two uncut spokes (of say 300mm but measure them), thread the nipples so that the top of the spoke is flush with the top of the nipple put them in oppoisite holes and measure the small gap you'll have. add that to the length of the two spokes and you have your ERD.

If the clincher is a same style rim (i.e. both are box style non-aerao, etc.) then the ERD should be very close. up to 2mm should be ok, larger than that difference and either they'll be too short na and might fail or be too long and won't tension up enough.

I just want to see pics of the bike please.

Bah. Use a length of brake cable, and thread it through a little washer if necessary to keep from pulling through the spoke hole.

In most cases you can get a pretty good swag simply by measuring the rim's inside diameter.

I'll stay out of the tubular - clincher debate, since I am still trying to decide how to rebuild the original wheelset on Capo #2. I rode tubulars quite frequently during the 1970s, but quickly gave them up after moving to north coastal San Diego County with its myriad goathead thorns.