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Need Help with old LEGNANO
Hi, I am new on this forum and joined because I need some help with an old Legnano I just purchased. There seem to be very little information on the internet about Legnano even though Legnano has been around forever. I bought this bike from a guy that had it hanging in his house since about 30 years , so it’s in great condition. The only problem , and a big one ,at the time the guy let one of his employees swap the cranks for some stronglight cranks, go figure. I would really appreciate if someone could tell me how old is this bike (im guessing 1963 based on the fact that the record rear derailleur was not introduced before 1963). I would also like to know what campagnolo crankset I should buy in order to restore the bike to original condition ( record , strada record, nuovo record?). It does say Roma Olympiade and Campagnolo record equipped on the frame, the serial number is FM716. I just hope it is not a 1958 because I would need to sell a kidney to buy the right crankset. Thanks a lot !
you will find a lot of bad pictures of the bike here http://www.flickr.com/photos/13576662@N05/ Oh and by the way it’s a Campagnolo super Record equipped Miyata in the back ;). http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1172/...a52204aa6a.jpg |
Sweet bike!
I would agree that the bike is no earlier than 1963, the other components match the dating. Take off the locknuts on the hubs, flip them over and you will see a date stamp. Also, Campagnolo introduce a new headset in 1965, that could give you a clue, check the timeline for details. As for the crank, I don't know enough for a definative answer but I would guess Record would be the way to go over Nouvo. (Strada is just a designation instead of Pista, you don't want the Pista). |
Beautiful bike - congratulations. The Roma Olympiade was Legnano's top model in the 60's, and in the classic green it's very iconic. I think your dating based on the components is probably accurate - 1963 to 1967 or so. Which means you don't need the first-generation Campagnolo cranks that cost a mint, but you will ned the 151 bcd cranks that can still be pretty expensive, especially if you are looking for a set that is as nice as the rest of that bike. Think $150 (if you're lucky) to $200+ in excellent condition. Here's a pic of a similarly equipped bike with the cirrect crankset:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Ita...no_M_Barry.htm |
Originally Posted by iab
(Post 5300893)
As for the crank, I don't know enough for a definative answer but I would guess Record would be the way to go over Nouvo.
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special
(Post 5301004)
Not sure what this means.
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Originally Posted by iab
(Post 5301033)
Hence my disclaimer of "I don't know enough". ;):o
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thanks for the quick replies and comments ! I was wondering about the diffrence betwenne record and nuovo record/super record.
Are those what I would need ? http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-Campagnolo-...QQcmdZViewItem Also any guess as to the value with correct crankset?, thanks again |
That set you depicted is earlier, I believe, as it still has the raised pedal holes. A set without the raised pedal holes (post-second generation) would I believe be contemporary with your bike and hence correct. A set without the raised pedal holes would also be cheaper - maybe by quite a bit.
With the correct parts and in that good condition, and being a true classic, the bike would be very valuable in terms of collectibility. I won't hazard a guess, but well upwards of 1k. You can start checking eBay listing for comparison - though you won't find as many high-end Legnanos quite as nice. |
Double post - sorry, got stuck in computer limbo.
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There certainly was a difference between Record and Nuovo Record. It was 151 vs. 144. The 151 would be correct for that Legnano, keep in mind chainrings are hard to come by these days, so buy a complete crank. Some Legnano stuff here, search Legnano:
http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/main.php Also at: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Ita...gnano_main.htm This is a pic of one I sold: |
Originally Posted by dbakl
(Post 5301286)
There certainly was a difference between Record and Nuovo Record. It was 151 vs. 144.
http://www.velo-retro.com/tline.html |
Originally Posted by Picchio Special
(Post 5301328)
Again, this is incorrect. The 151 bcd cranks were called "Record." The 144 bcd cranks were also called "Record." The bcd changed, but Campagnolo did not change the name. Check the 1973 catalog on campyonly and you'll see that the "Record" group includes the "Nuovo Record" bottom bracket, but the "Record" crankset. Or just take a couple of minutes to check the timeline, specifically the second entry for 1968:
http://www.velo-retro.com/tline.html |
Since the "Record" rear derailler was available until 1973, there is a chance that this bike would have come with the 144bcd Record cranks, which came out in 1966. Certainly much easier to obtain than the 151bcd units!
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Check the cone locknuts for a date stamp. Although hard to see, the rims don't look original. I saw Campagnolo on the hubs but couldn't see if the word Record was stamped on them. I have a 1963 Legnano Roma Olympiad which I am using as a comparison against yours. I was able to verify that my hubs were original therefore allowing me to use the lock nut date of 1963 to narrow down the age of my Legnano. My FD has the cable stop and the chrome plated bronze arms which date it to 1963. The hubs are HF Campagnolo but stamped Legnano. Serial no. is FE7325. Finally the crank arms do not have the raised pedal lip which was eliminated in 1962. I'll try to post some detailed pics of the crankset in the next day or so. Hope this helps. Oh, one last comment. That is one fine looking Legnano. Puts mine to shame. I could be wrong but I am of the opinion it has been restored. That is a 40 something year old bike with what appears to be a perfect finish. What does the original owner say?
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Originally Posted by evwxxx
(Post 5302767)
Since the "Record" rear derailler was available until 1973, there is a chance that this bike would have come with the 144bcd Record cranks, which came out in 1966. Certainly much easier to obtain than the 151bcd units!
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Originally Posted by dbakl
(Post 5302444)
Technically you may be right, but I think you're spliting hairs. The 144 cranks have always been called Nuovo Record, unless the rings were cut out, then Super Record. I'm talking about common language among users to specify differing products, like everyone calls hubs Tipos when technically they're Nuovo Tipos. Aren't they still selling Record labeled crankss? No one would suggest those were the same as 1958.
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Not sure why you would say the 144bcd cranks were only available on a "limited" basis until 1968. The campy timeline at velo-retro.com states:
"1966 - The Record crankset is changed to a 144mm bolt circle (41 tooth minimum chainring) from the previous 151mm bolt circle (44 tooth minimum chainring)." Then, the NR derailler is announced in the end of year catalogue #15, which would indicate it probably did not become widely available until 1968: "1967 - Catalog #15 is printed for the year-end trade shows. Included for the Record group is the Nuovo Record alloy rear derailleur..." Since the Record rear derailler came out in October 1963 (according to the timeline), there would have been 3 months in 1963, then 64 and 65, where the only available combination was Record RD with 151bcd cranks. Then, in 1966 and 67, the available combination would have been Record RD with 144bcd cranks. Then, from 1968 on the combination would have been NR RD with 144bcd cranks. So, there would have been 2 years and 3 months where the Record RD/151bcd crank combo would be expected, and about 2 years where the Record RD/144bcd crank combo would be expected. All of this, of course, assumes the timeline is accurate! |
Supplement to my previous post. One correction re the FD: the cable stop and arms do not specifically date it to 1963. Additional info on my 1963 which is currently disassembled: BCD is 151 and headset locknut is domed (pre-1965). Brooks B17 saddle has "Campagnolo" stamped on it.
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Hi, thanks to everyone, i am amazed by the amount of knowledge you guys have, i am still trying to digest the information. dbakl ,nice bike , how much did you get for yours? I will make sure to check the locknuts for marks and look at the front derailleur for the integral cable stop , ill take pictures if needed. As for finding a 151 bcd crankset, it is not as easy as I tought, i have seen worn crank arms (no rings) for sale at over $200 and chainrings for $100 each. Will any record cranks with a 151 bcd and no lip around the pedal hole do it? or were there variations or diffrent date stamps at the time? To retyred, the bike was definitively not restored.The person who sold me the bike is the original owner and appeared quite wealthy and would not have had any interest in restoring the bike to sell it. He pointed to me the parts he remembered having replaced ; rear rim (nisi) , lever hood, saddle , cranks and bar tape.I have to admit that the condition is quite hard to believe and I havent cleaned it yet. The Miyata team sl in the back came from the same person and is in the same condition.thanks again
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retyrd:
i wonder; does the driveside dropout on your 1963 bike have the boss for the campagnolo sport derailleur ? looks like coyote's biek has the later undrilled version, as does mine.. |
[QUOTE All of this, of course, assumes the timeline is accurate![/QUOTE]
I also use the timeline but I know that it isn't infallible. I can remember hanging out in the LBS back in the early '60s and listening to the owner complain that he couldn't get any Campagnolo parts because the factory was out on strike.....again! And let's not forget the month long holiday. |
Originally Posted by evwxxx
(Post 5303362)
Not sure why you would say the 144bcd cranks were only available on a "limited" basis until 1968. The campy timeline at velo-retro.com states:
"1966 - The Record crankset is changed to a 144mm bolt circle (41 tooth minimum chainring) from the previous 151mm bolt circle (44 tooth minimum chainring)." Then, the NR derailler is announced in the end of year catalogue #15, which would indicate it probably did not become widely available until 1968: "1967 - Catalog #15 is printed for the year-end trade shows. Included for the Record group is the Nuovo Record alloy rear derailleur..." Since the Record rear derailler came out in October 1963 (according to the timeline), there would have been 3 months in 1963, then 64 and 65, where the only available combination was Record RD with 151bcd cranks. Then, in 1966 and 67, the available combination would have been Record RD with 144bcd cranks. Then, from 1968 on the combination would have been NR RD with 144bcd cranks. So, there would have been 2 years and 3 months where the Record RD/151bcd crank combo would be expected, and about 2 years where the Record RD/144bcd crank combo would be expected. All of this, of course, assumes the timeline is accurate! My reference to earlier limited availability, BTW, was to the fact that Anquetil apparently had them on his Tour bikes as early as 1963. |
I guess it all hinges on what date codes the OP can find on the axle nuts!!
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Originally Posted by evwxxx
(Post 5303666)
I guess it all hinges on what date codes the OP can find on the axle nuts!!
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I'm almost certain the bike has the Record front derailleur with the cable stop, because it has the Campy clamp on cable guide that was paired with that derailleur. But be sure to check whether the cable guide appended to the derailleur has a slot cut in it or not - unslotted ones are earlier.
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