Help identify this Bottecchia
10-04-07 | 03:48 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Got an old Peugeot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: I'm from Israel
Bikes: I had a Trek 1200
Help identify this Bottecchia
Hi,
This bike is for sale for 300$.
I just talked with the owner and he gave me some details. I will go later to see the bike.
Can you all help me know what to check when looking on the bike?
Is it steel or aluminum ?
The frame serial number is: MAX 8069 56 (I don't know if the order is correct, I got it by SMS).
On the down tube there is a sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"
The drivetrain is Compagnolo aventi.
The owner say it is from the 90's.
What bike is that and can you refer me to an internet page for this bike?
Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)?
Thanks very much,
Kfir
This bike is for sale for 300$.
I just talked with the owner and he gave me some details. I will go later to see the bike.
Can you all help me know what to check when looking on the bike?
Is it steel or aluminum ?
The frame serial number is: MAX 8069 56 (I don't know if the order is correct, I got it by SMS).
On the down tube there is a sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"
The drivetrain is Compagnolo aventi.
The owner say it is from the 90's.
What bike is that and can you refer me to an internet page for this bike?
Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)?
Thanks very much,
Kfir
Last edited by kipibenkipod; 10-04-07 at 03:56 AM. Reason: Added frame serial number
10-04-07 | 04:10 AM
#2
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Likes: 4
>>>This bike is for sale for 300$. <<<
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
10-04-07 | 04:29 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Got an old Peugeot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: I'm from Israel
Bikes: I had a Trek 1200
>>>This bike is for sale for 300$. <<<
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
10-04-07 | 04:33 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Got an old Peugeot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: I'm from Israel
Bikes: I had a Trek 1200
>>>This bike is for sale for 300$. <<<
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
A bargain
>>>Is it steel or aluminum ?<<<
steel
>>>sticker that say something like this: "Colombus acciaio livacron max ellssi orientate"<<<
The sticker describes the tubing used as Columbus Max- a differentially butted, nivacrom steel with a multi-shaped & oversize diameter crossection- state of the art and top of the line in performance and technology for the time. It is a tubeset that has rightly earned a cult status for quality amoungst the cogniscenti.
>>>Also, would it be good for single speed (It is not required)? <<<
Converting this fine roadbike to a single speed would be a travesty, imo.
10-04-07 | 05:01 AM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 303
From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
I've got an Australian bike with what looks like the same frame. Fork is the same also:
I know the bike shop. The owner, Vern, built the bike for his son from a raw frameset distributed by a local importer. He was able to put his decals onto the frame.
It is steel Columbus MAX and is a very nice ride - very stiff. I bought it for $250 and consider it a bargain. MAX is a great frameset - thin walled (see a dint in top tube), oversized diameter, ovalised at lugs for strength, light weight and strong.
I wonder if the Bottecchia really is a Bottecchia? I would be expecting to see some other forms of identification such as engraving on some frame components like the brake bridge, bottom bracket, lugs, etc.
I know the bike shop. The owner, Vern, built the bike for his son from a raw frameset distributed by a local importer. He was able to put his decals onto the frame.
It is steel Columbus MAX and is a very nice ride - very stiff. I bought it for $250 and consider it a bargain. MAX is a great frameset - thin walled (see a dint in top tube), oversized diameter, ovalised at lugs for strength, light weight and strong.
I wonder if the Bottecchia really is a Bottecchia? I would be expecting to see some other forms of identification such as engraving on some frame components like the brake bridge, bottom bracket, lugs, etc.
Last edited by Gary Fountain; 10-04-07 at 05:13 AM.
10-04-07 | 05:52 AM
#6
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Likes: 4
1) First thing is to make sure the frame fits you.The best deal is no bargain if it doesn't.
2)Tho pictures can be misleading, the overall appearance is of a bike with low or moderate useage and/or well cared for/babied. Rust isn't a likely concern in a bike of this age and your location. Dirt/grit in the bottom bracket and headset might be. Release the chain from the from the front chainring and give the crank a spin. Remove the front wheel and see how smoothly the headset turns. Even if you find a problem, usually a simple cleaning,repack and adjustment will often suffice. Even in a worst case, repair/replacement isn't cost prohibitive and shouldn't be a deal breaker.
3)Your biggest concern should be if the frame has been damaged in a fall or accident.Check the condition of the brake levers for signs of a fall. Visually inspect the toptube for dents, esp where the handlebar would come in contact when it's turned all the way around.Check closely for a bend / dent / crease of the tubing on the unerside of the downtube just a few inches below where the downtube meets the headtube/steerer.Columbus Max forks are almost indestructible and a head-on collision with something like a curb will transfer nearly all the impact force to the downtube. The only other area of the frame that might (but not very likely) be a concern is the highly stressed seatstay to seatube joints.Look for cracking or separation of the seatstay welds/brazes.
4)The other big ticket problem to watch for is dented/ damaged rims. Wheels can be very expensive to repair or replace. Some side to side out of trueness is okay and normally easily corrected. Rims with sharp dents and hops will often need replacement .Tip offs to rim damage are loose spokes, micro cracking at the ferrules and spots of heavy brakepad build-up/smearing where the rim might be splayed out from an impact.
Most anything else in the way of mechanical problems can normally be corrected with a basic tune-up/ lube or replaced at a "reasonable" cost. Figure from the start that the tyres/tubes will probably need immediate replacement (or maybe not).
2)Tho pictures can be misleading, the overall appearance is of a bike with low or moderate useage and/or well cared for/babied. Rust isn't a likely concern in a bike of this age and your location. Dirt/grit in the bottom bracket and headset might be. Release the chain from the from the front chainring and give the crank a spin. Remove the front wheel and see how smoothly the headset turns. Even if you find a problem, usually a simple cleaning,repack and adjustment will often suffice. Even in a worst case, repair/replacement isn't cost prohibitive and shouldn't be a deal breaker.
3)Your biggest concern should be if the frame has been damaged in a fall or accident.Check the condition of the brake levers for signs of a fall. Visually inspect the toptube for dents, esp where the handlebar would come in contact when it's turned all the way around.Check closely for a bend / dent / crease of the tubing on the unerside of the downtube just a few inches below where the downtube meets the headtube/steerer.Columbus Max forks are almost indestructible and a head-on collision with something like a curb will transfer nearly all the impact force to the downtube. The only other area of the frame that might (but not very likely) be a concern is the highly stressed seatstay to seatube joints.Look for cracking or separation of the seatstay welds/brazes.
4)The other big ticket problem to watch for is dented/ damaged rims. Wheels can be very expensive to repair or replace. Some side to side out of trueness is okay and normally easily corrected. Rims with sharp dents and hops will often need replacement .Tip offs to rim damage are loose spokes, micro cracking at the ferrules and spots of heavy brakepad build-up/smearing where the rim might be splayed out from an impact.
Most anything else in the way of mechanical problems can normally be corrected with a basic tune-up/ lube or replaced at a "reasonable" cost. Figure from the start that the tyres/tubes will probably need immediate replacement (or maybe not).
Last edited by caterham; 10-04-07 at 06:00 AM. Reason: clarification
10-04-07 | 05:57 AM
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,123
MAX tubesets came out circa 1988. In 1991 Bottechia marketed the MAX Corsa, at least in the US. Israel could be an entirely different story. It may well have been built up from a frame. They are incredibly stiff frames.
10-04-07 | 12:01 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Got an old Peugeot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: I'm from Israel
Bikes: I had a Trek 1200
Update, I rode the bike
Hi,
Here is an update:
We went to see the bike 3 hours ago. I had 2 punctures in the way, but got over them
My first impression of the bike, is that it is small. My girlfriend also said it.
I asked the owner to bring a meter and after measuring the seat tube I found it to be 58cm.
I currently have Trek 1200 with seat tube of 55cm, which is way way small to me (my inseam is 34'').
I took the bike to a ride, well, it feels like a tank Very stiff but very smooth on the pavement. I think its because of the chromoly frame. The drivetrain felt like something I have never felt - very accurate and tuned, its like it made of some exotic material compared to my Trek RSX drivetrain. The quill was very short, so it let me feel more comfortable, but I have raised the seat and found that I will need to raise the quill also. This is something I don't want. I want a frame that will wrap my body, but it felt small, even smaller or equal to my Trek.
One thing tough, the wheels were just what I wanted, 36h with rim that have eyelets and 28c tires from specialized, that looked new and very good. I really loved those wheels. I think the bike is worth just for the wheels.
The frame have some chips on it, but all of them where coated with red paint. Not the best, but if you don't search, you don't see. For me it is good. I really have hard time to keep my frame from chips.
The owner said it will go down to 250$.
I did tried to convince him to swap bikes with me, but he didn't want. I told him that my bike is aluminum and it will go much higher and faster then this steel frame. He said that his LBS will pay him 225$ for the bike, so he wanted to get more. I really don't believe someone in Israel will pay more for them. You really need to know what you are looking for, and with this budget, most of the riders are novices, who wants just carbon, but can't afford it
I think this frame can suit me for triathlon training, when you need to raise the saddle more then the bar, but here I felt, it is somewhat higher then I need to. I will add that I wanted this bike for lite touring and everyday errands.
I did lift the bike for feeling of the weight. It seems that it weights about 9kg or less (less then my Trek)!
I have looked on the drivetrain and it looks good, not perfect but good.
One thing I know from my experience from my Trek, I don't want my neck and body to hurt anymore!
So we discussed it a little, me and my girlfriend, and decided to go.
I once missed a Ducati 750ss like a Ferrari condition, just because I wanted a swap with my motorcycle.
This stupid mistake hunts me until this day.
I really try to tell my self that I did the right thing.
Feel free to share your opinions.
Thanks for your help.
Kfir
Here is an update:
We went to see the bike 3 hours ago. I had 2 punctures in the way, but got over them
My first impression of the bike, is that it is small. My girlfriend also said it.
I asked the owner to bring a meter and after measuring the seat tube I found it to be 58cm.
I currently have Trek 1200 with seat tube of 55cm, which is way way small to me (my inseam is 34'').
I took the bike to a ride, well, it feels like a tank
Very stiff but very smooth on the pavement. I think its because of the chromoly frame. The drivetrain felt like something I have never felt - very accurate and tuned, its like it made of some exotic material compared to my Trek RSX drivetrain. The quill was very short, so it let me feel more comfortable, but I have raised the seat and found that I will need to raise the quill also. This is something I don't want. I want a frame that will wrap my body, but it felt small, even smaller or equal to my Trek. One thing tough, the wheels were just what I wanted, 36h with rim that have eyelets and 28c tires from specialized, that looked new and very good. I really loved those wheels. I think the bike is worth just for the wheels.
The frame have some chips on it, but all of them where coated with red paint. Not the best, but if you don't search, you don't see. For me it is good. I really have hard time to keep my frame from chips.
The owner said it will go down to 250$.
I did tried to convince him to swap bikes with me, but he didn't want. I told him that my bike is aluminum and it will go much higher and faster then this steel frame. He said that his LBS will pay him 225$ for the bike, so he wanted to get more. I really don't believe someone in Israel will pay more for them. You really need to know what you are looking for, and with this budget, most of the riders are novices, who wants just carbon, but can't afford it
I think this frame can suit me for triathlon training, when you need to raise the saddle more then the bar, but here I felt, it is somewhat higher then I need to. I will add that I wanted this bike for lite touring and everyday errands.
I did lift the bike for feeling of the weight. It seems that it weights about 9kg or less (less then my Trek)!
I have looked on the drivetrain and it looks good, not perfect but good.
One thing I know from my experience from my Trek, I don't want my neck and body to hurt anymore!
So we discussed it a little, me and my girlfriend, and decided to go.
I once missed a Ducati 750ss like a Ferrari condition, just because I wanted a swap with my motorcycle.
This stupid mistake hunts me until this day.
I really try to tell my self that I did the right thing.
Feel free to share your opinions.
Thanks for your help.
Kfir
10-04-07 | 05:56 PM
#10
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 303
From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
From your initial photo's of the bike, I can see that it is possible to raise the seat much higher than it is in the photo. (Look for a limit mark in the seat stem - don't go higher than that mark) It wound also be easy to change the quill stem for a longer one to give you more room on the bike. I would say that the present owner, if he actually rode the bike, is 3 to 5cm shorter than you. The bike is set up for a shorter person. The previous owner was trying to fit onto a bike frame that was actually too big for him.
If you have a look at my red bike - it is a 58cm frame (from the centre of the crank axle to the centre of where the top tube would be if it crossed the seat tube - measured along the seat tube). I'm 185cm high and I have the frame set up to it's limit in seat height. I would estimate that my frame would suit riders that fit into the 180cm to 186cm height range. I am of an average build - my legs are not long or short in proportion to the rest of my body.
If you are of a similar height and you have measured the frame in a similar way to me I would say that the frame would suit you.
I must say that I like riding my bike quickly and efficiently. I can't put both toes on the ground and still sit on the saddle when the bike has stopped.
By the way, the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good.
If you have a look at my red bike - it is a 58cm frame (from the centre of the crank axle to the centre of where the top tube would be if it crossed the seat tube - measured along the seat tube). I'm 185cm high and I have the frame set up to it's limit in seat height. I would estimate that my frame would suit riders that fit into the 180cm to 186cm height range. I am of an average build - my legs are not long or short in proportion to the rest of my body.
If you are of a similar height and you have measured the frame in a similar way to me I would say that the frame would suit you.
I must say that I like riding my bike quickly and efficiently. I can't put both toes on the ground and still sit on the saddle when the bike has stopped.
By the way, the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good.
Last edited by Gary Fountain; 10-04-07 at 06:19 PM.
10-04-07 | 08:18 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Got an old Peugeot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: I'm from Israel
Bikes: I had a Trek 1200
From your initial photo's of the bike, I can see that it is possible to raise the seat much higher than it is in the photo. (Look for a limit mark in the seat stem - don't go higher than that mark) It wound also be easy to change the quill stem for a longer one to give you more room on the bike. I would say that the present owner, if he actually rode the bike, is 3 to 5cm shorter than you. The bike is set up for a shorter person. The previous owner was trying to fit onto a bike frame that was actually too big for him.
He was small. But after I got up on the bike, I did understand that the setup suits him well. This bike was his uncle's and he gave it to him as a present, so I guess the initial measuring wasn't to suit him. One thing tough, he said that he didn't change anything in the bike. Its all orginal. Just the front drealiour is ultegra. If you have a look at my red bike - it is a 58cm frame (from the centre of the crank axle to the centre of where the top tube would be if it crossed the seat tube - measured along the seat tube). I'm 185cm high and I have the frame set up to it's limit in seat height. I would estimate that my frame would suit riders that fit into the 180cm to 186cm height range. I am of an average build - my legs are not long or short in proportion to the rest of my body.
I'm 183cm with 34'' inseam and I did felt that the frame was a bit small. I do like the stem size, because it lets me be more upright, but I can't know for sure after 5min on the saddle.
Maybe I should ask the owner for a longer ride.
If you are of a similar height and you have measured the frame in a similar way to me I would say that the frame would suit you.
I must say that I like riding my bike quickly and efficiently. I can't put both toes on the ground and still sit on the saddle when the bike has stopped.
By the way, the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good.
I must say that I like riding my bike quickly and efficiently. I can't put both toes on the ground and still sit on the saddle when the bike has stopped.
By the way, the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good.
Italian made... Dong... Dong...
the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good... Dong... Dong...
Italian made... Dong... Dong...
the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good... Dong... Dong...
Italian made... Dong... Dong...
the Columbus MAX frame material is extremely good... Dong... Dong...
Italian made... Dong... Dong...
Hehe, thats how I feel about this sentence. I understand that it is very good quality frame, and so have harder time deciding.
Thank you for the help.
10-06-07 | 07:53 AM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,212
Likes: 3,123
Yes, Columbus MAX is extremely good tubing and this is a very good buy, but not if the intention is "lite touring and everyday errands". MAX is incedibly stiff. It will rattle your bones on anything but the smoothest of roads. It was best suited to track bicycles and criterium racers.
10-06-07 | 05:20 PM
#13
juneeaa memba!
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
If your children are not going to go barefoot because of it, you should buy the bike. The parts group is actually Avanti, I think...a good middle of the road Campy group, and much better (IMO) than the RSX stuff on the 1200. Bite the bullet, get the bike, and welcome to the vintage bike collector's world!
