hhabca

Anyone know what 'High Manganese Steel' means? It's says this on the tube sticker of a Japanese made Bianchi (Piaggio era - no other markings on the frame for model etc....)

The frame has forged dropouts and lots of braze-ons so it's not junk, but the seat post is 26.4mm so kind of thick walled I suspect. Frame is not light, but not heavy either.... Opinions???

mr. peugeot

It may be similiar to Peugeot's HLE tubing, which is a mangalloy steel. I've got a late 80s PH10 made of HLE and it's actually not nearly as heavy as one would expect at 24.5lbs.

WNG

Could be Tange Mangalloy 2000 tubes.
It appears to be ranked below their CrMo tubesets, in the Tange No.1 weight limit thread.

Hard to say if that means it's inferior, or simply thicker.
Afterall, isn't Reynold 531 a High Manganese Steel? And there's nothing wrong with it.

Scooper

Manganese steels carry a 13xx AISI designation (the "xx" indicates carbon content in hundreths of a percent).

See https://www.materialsengineer.com/E-Alloying-Steels.htm.

jjciiijs

Thanks for that Stan. I saved it.

terrors

i have one of those bikes also. it is a Bianchi Bici 11 from what i have discovered. made in Japan, Bianchi design 1983 during the time bianchi was bought out by piaggio (i think that happened in 1981) it has a mixture of japanese and french components. this bike is totally original and in near mint condition. lovely Mavic module 3 polished rims with normandy hubs, cyclone FDR, Mt Tech RD, selle bianchi branded saddle. i don't know the technical details but this is one of the lightest of the vintage lightweights that i have

Old Fat Guy

Bookmarked as well, thanks.

luker

If I recall correctly, 531 is manganese/molybdenum steel, and mangalloy is just manganese alloy. Manganese would be good for adding structure to reclaimed steel (your dad's 76 plymouth fury went to the furnaces in Japan.)

Scooper

You recall correctly. According to Wikipedia, 531 alloying composition is 1.5% Manganese, 0.25% Molybdenum, and 0.35% Carbon.

hhabca

Thanks for all the info - I did do a google search and came up with all sorts of things about HSLA steel and stuff, but nothing specific to bicycles.

I got this frame with only the brakes, a busted crank, bars and stem. I put on a good crank, deraileurs and shifters, levers, seat post, and borrowed some wheels and I'm surprised that it weighs 25lbs. The 26.4 seat post had me thinking 'gas pipe' but maybe the other tubes are thinner. I don't think anything is butted either.

Scooper

What size frame is it (seat tube length, center of crank to top of seat tube)?

well biked

I don't think a 26.4mm seatpost diameter indicates "gas pipe." I've got two '80's Schwinns, both with full chromoly frames, at least one of them has double butted main tubes, and they both take 26.4mm seatposts.

Hocam

The difference between a 531 frame and fork, and a "gas-pipe" frame and fork is probably only 2-3 pounds. However, gas pipe bikes seem so heavy because of the heavier, cheaper components like steel wheels, cranks, bars, etc. That makes for a much heavier bike. You might have a cheap frame with upgraded parts.

divineAndbright

I had one of those before, mine took a 26.6 post size though, I think it was from 1984. I'd say its comparable to cromoly steel as far as ride feel and weight goes.

luker

and the really amazing thing is that the difference between classic, fine steel, and hand-laid, wooty snooty carbon fiber is really less than 2 pounds, usually. And about $3000. I have a project I'm working on...and I'm about to release it to the world. And, I'm predicting, that my C&V card will be revoked...but steel is still real.

ken cummings

Manganese adds hardness to steel. In low amounts it would make an otherwise wimpy frame stiffer. At high levels you get the hammers in the hammer mills that shred car bodies and stuff. Make a frame too hard and when you overload it, it fails catastrophically. I'll stick with chrome-molybdenum steel tubing

hhabca

It's a 62 ST but with a 56 (maybe 57) TT. With cycling shoes on and 700c-32 tires mounted I can just clear the TT standing with both feet flat.

I put a bit about it here (post 131);
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=355403&page=6

and here I asked about standover here;
https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/365356-1-standover-clearance-important.html

I guess I'm trying to figure out if the effort to repaint it would be worth it. I'm currently thinking of doing a quick rust clean-up then silver Tremclad (Rustoleum...) on only the rusty spots (BB and chainstays mostly - chrome forks might be OK with a 3M pad??). But if I like the bike (as in riding it for a few weeks - not possible right now at all except on snow/slushy streets) then maybe a full repaint in a brighter colour, like orange with a cream head tube. Or maybe I should go with all Celeste?

Scooper

Well, if it's a 62cm frame and fully equipped weighs only 25 pounds, it's got to be a decent tube set. My 61cm 531 Paramount P15-9 weighs about that.

terrors

for interest here are some pictures of my 1983 Bianchi BICI ll. I weighed it as shown (it is a small bike 53cm) and it is 19lbs! the SN is ES21732, bar tape is original. It has a Zeus pump that i took off to weigh it and forgot to put back on for the picture.

hhabca

Nice looking bike, and I think that's the same tube sticker on the frame I have. I can only assume "P.G." means plain gauge? It also looks like the same brakes and levers. Is the rear deraileur a Shimano AX or something like that? Are those 27 inch wheels, or is converted to 700? I put a set of 700 wheels in the frame I have and the stock Dia-Compe brakes will still reach. I was able to fit in 32mm tires and I think there's room for 35s. If this bike 'works' it might replace a Trek XO-1 I use for communting/gravel road riding.

divineAndbright

What is your weigh-in method? I dont see how that could possibly weigh 19 pounds.

Hocam

Actually the stiffness (or modulus of elasticity) of all steel is the same. What you mean is that managanese increases Rockwell hardness but decreases the elongation before failure (makes it brittle). What makes frames stiffer is more material and larger diameter tubing. By using a harder steel the tubes can be drawn thinner and to larger diameters, making them stiffer. This is why modern steels (columbus spirit for instance) are funky shapes and large diameters but very very hard steel.

Hocam

I hear that, a really nice steel frame is around 3-3.5 pounds and a high end carbon is a little over 2. Although, the biggest weight savings for your dollar is in your fork. For some reason steel forks are something like twice as heavy as midrange carbon forks.

Funny how cycling is the reverse of everything else; the more you pay the less you get.

terrors

divineand bright: i used a digital fish scale. before i weighed the bike i tested it with a marked 7lb lead downrigger ball. the ball read out at just over the marked 7lbs. when i hung the bike it was acually 18 lb 15oz. one has to consider the size of the bike also it is 52/53cm with a standover of 30". the mavic module 3 wheels are very light. having said all this i rechecked and re-weighed the bike. you are quite right it must have been touching something the first time. this time after weighing a number of times the consistant weight was 23lb 15oz. thanks for pointing that out, i thought it seemed a bit light too. i also weighed my marinoni corsa pista, columbus sl it was 20.5lbs.

hhabca: FDR is suntour cyclone, RDR is suntour Mt Tech. brakes dia-compe 'G", cranks SR 52-42 rings 170.,shifters are suntour with cutouts, michelin tires. 36h normandy hubs 15ga spokes, selle italia condor saddle, dia-compe drilled levers,wheels mavic module 3 27" clinchers.

hhabca

Well, this is in line with the 24 to 25 pounds I get on my digital bath scale for the 62cm size (when it's built up with similar components).