I have an '88 that needs a new headset and what I thought would be a relatively painless process with my LBS turned out to be quite the opposite, now I'm out in the cold and need a little guidance. The headset is Shimano 600EX, like this 105 except all silver.


I've done some searching and found the following. Would either of these work?
https://www.velostuf.com/shimanohs.jpg
https://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-Shimano-600E...QQcmdZViewItem

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Either of those should work, in fact ANY headset for a 1" threaded steerer would work...I'd suggest avoiding the ones in your post though, unless you have that special wrench. Better off getting one with regular wrench flats.

Headsets can be a nightmare!

Only half a wheel ahead of bottom brackets!



Calipers are needed.

To spend $110 for a 600 headset on eBay, you really have to know EXACTLY what you need.
You get the wrong threading, or too much stack height and it's back to the 'Bay for that item.

And the hunt continues...

Most of my LBS's HATE trying to deal with an '88 headset on a Falcon.
They barely stock parts for ninety eights, much less EIGHTY eights.

In this case, knowledge is POWER!

Know the stack height needed for your frame/fork.
Know the threading.
Know the fork crown race seat diameter.
Know the inside headtube diameters.
Know what I mean?

That way when you go to the LBS and ask for help with an '88 Falcon headset, you'll sound like you know what you're asking.

ON THE OTHER HAND.....

My "newbie" approach to finding a solution to a funky headset????


MONEY!

LBS: "HI, can I help you?"

DrD: "Hi. Yes. I need this only tired headset rebuilt. How much is that please?"

LBS: "That runs $25 labor plus parts.."

DrD: "That'll be fine, but I just want to use the old parts, funky as they may be right now. Can I pay you an extra $5 or something to take the headset measurements for me. I know it's a weird old headset and I may have trouble finding a replacement right away."

LBS: "Excellent. We'll have it ready tomorrow afternoon."

DrD: "Thank you very much. I'll see you tomorrow"


So there, now I'm a full fledged PAYING customer!
I have my old headset regreased, I have the specs needed for eBaying a nice NOS replacement piece,
AND a little repect from the LBS.

Membership has its privileges.

But the point of the dialog to illustrate...

A) I'm here to SPEND MONEY, not time.
B) I know it's an "old" bike (old bike = headache to LBSs)
I just want the HS overhaul and measurements.
This means no digging through boxes or back shelves for something that "might work".
Just regrease whatevers left of what's in there. Good job for the newbie at the shop.
C) MANNERS! Didn't yo Momma teach you no manners?!?

So...QUICK, PAYING & POLITE!

Why would I pay $30 to have a LBS regrease the cubic bearings of the old headset?

Well, I'd be getting the new one, once I had the measurements anyway...
And having the correct specs means that I'll only be biding on QUALIFYING headsets, saving me untold time & headache.

All that, and having the kids at the bike shop actually be GLAD to see me again...soon..and often!


That's all I have here on headsets for this morning. (IOW, How Dr. D spends his Saturday nights)

Good luck with that, 2wheeled! dang! smiley overload : - 0

Strictly speaking, you do not need a special wrench. A regular open-side flat face or even adjustable wrench of sufficient/proper size will work. Some care must be taken to minimize cosmetic damage but it can be done.

I'm not sure what should be considered "funky" about this headset. If it is on a Falcon it's pretty certain that an English thread is used. As to stack height just buy a used one off Ebay with same relative configuration. Use old washer to add height; to reduce height, remove washer(s).

I don't see a big mystery here.

Here's a guy with EX tools and a NOS headset for little money (so far).

https://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZaphronesia

A 1" threaded Shimano headset with English threads is common. Don't pay $100+!!! It's likely somebody on C&V will show up with one to offer. Have you checked "Trades"?

Also this:

https://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/20...placement.html

Non-obvious to me [cf. Dr. Deltron's post above] -- how does the LBS (as anyone else) measure the crown race ID and the OD for the two head tube races, without removing these? I suppose that with an inside caliper (I don't have one), one could measure the head tube just beyond those races; but the steerer tube is, in my experience, smaller diameter than the seat on the fork crown, which does not appear above the race when installed. Are there tools that can measure the inside of the race, in the tiny gap that exists between the steerer tube and the top rim of the race?

Apart from stack height (which always seems to be a sticky problem, see below), race dimension is what distinguishes the various "standards" mostly. The most common headset variety for quality road bikes is ISO, whose fork crown race ID and frame cup OD are 26.4/30.2 respectively. It's also the one that can be "retrofit" to all the other ones that are common. These other so-called standards: JIS, French, Italian, use a fork crown race just enough larger to cause a problem, and all except JIS use the same frame cup OD. The infamous Raleigh "English racer" or 3-speed or "sport" (such as older Grand Prix) standard has identical seat dimensions, but a 26 pitch on the steerer tube instead of 24. Here's Sheldon Brown's crib sheet for headset standards:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-headsets.html

So, if you wanted to replace a "so-called" with an ISO headset: in the bulk of the cases, you have a trustworthy bike shop mill down the fork race; and in the worst case (JIS) you have to do that, plus mill out the head tube (2 race seats). With the Raleigh, it's usually the bottom races that wear out or get "brinnelled," and those are interchangeable with those from an ISO headset; provided the "stack" of original and replacement parts is close enough. Austrian (very rare) has a large head tube race OD, so they can't play.

Stack height problem can be solved (within a small window of opportunity) by using a different thickness spacer between the topmost (threaded-on) race and its locknut. A lot of headsets come with one that's on the order of 5 mm thick, and you can get them down to 2 or 1.5 even. I've even (horrors) omitted the spacer/washer entirely to get enough threads for the locknut -- just to give hives to the CR people who obsess about having the Campy spacer of the correct year. Of course, if your previous stack height was too large -- generally not the problem -- then you can use a thicker/additional spacer. Or, if you're fearless enough to cross the Rubicon, you can lop a few mm off the top of the steerer tube.

I think Tange headsets are very hard to beat for the money. They look classy and work. Good luck. I think you will happy with Tange.

Thanks for the feedback, however I need to add more to this for clarity.

When I was at the LBS we tried an old Dura ace with sealed bearings. No go, couldn't even get the top locknut on.

Once I got home I started doing the research to find out what would work. I believe I have the standard ISO 1 inch threaded headset. My problem clearly seams to be stack height. From what I've found out about measuring stack heights (measuring all visible parts when installed) it would put mine at about 32mm. I spoke to another store that deals with vintage bikes (no headsets available) said that open ball would be my only option as sealed adds to much height.

Sorefeet, MY LBS noticed the Tange in his catalog but said it was low quality, however with this very shallow stack height I'm not finding much else out there.

Tange isn't a bad choice. They were a direct copy of the Ball and Cup design of Campy. It would be a robust one. You can protect it from water by putting a small piece of innertube around the cups for winter riding.

Look it up in the Sutherlands manual??

To be accurate, you can't measure without removing the headset.
hence my dialog descrption.

When Cyclotoine switched to a campy headset for Corky, I had to mill the fork crown race down to Campy size. The first milling with my new replacement Campy mill!

I also milled the headtube, but didn't have to "lop off a few mm's", just clean and align the headtube race seats. (2nd time I've used THAT Campy tool)

Unfortunately, I don't have the BB tap & facing tool.
Had to have Spence Wolf's ol' cohort, Hector, do that job.

Here are the results of the fork crown race seat facing...

Tange makes a couple, maybe three, different headsets based on what I see being offered on eBay. I think that the Levin is their top-shelf product, though they're all probably fine. Headsets are one area where the pretensions and obsessions of bike snobs really look silly. It's a very basic piece of equipment, without much demanded of it; yes, just about all the load is side load, and they take a lot of impact load, especially the bottom bearing. But they don't make you go faster or last longer before you're exhausted, and they can hardly screw you up, unless they totally fail catastrophically, which is really rare. The best ones are the ones that keep crap out of the bearings, so you don't have to overhaul them so often.

Your stack height of the replacement headset you need should be (1) the length of the steerer tube on the fork, from top of tube to the place where the bottom race butts against on the fork crown, minus (2) the height of your head tube (the bike frame part only), from underside of top pressed race, to top of bottom pressed race, plus (3) a millimeter or less -- that's so that the lip of the locknut doesn't bottom out on the top of the steerer tube.

You need to measure the length of the steer tube, from tippy top down to the bottom of the crown race, and the head tube length. The difference between these two is the "optimal" stack height. I say optimal because if you can get a headset with this value as the stack height, you should not have to dink with spacers to make it work. If you find a headset that has a bit less stack height, just add a spacer. If the headset is just a bit too tall within say 1.5 mm, you can substitute a thinner spacer or go without.

Many Tanges have very small stack heights, there are at least two models called Levin and which have differing stack heights. Check the dimensions before you do anything expensive or irrevocable.

Road Fan

I have Tange headsets on my Cannondale and my Bianchi. The Bianchi needed a JIS headset because it has a replacement fork, but I didn't know that before I bought the headset. I just brought the fork by my LBS and the owner test-fitted spare races from old headsets on the fork until he found the JIS one that fit. So he went back and pulled a JIS headset off a shelf - $12. Then again, I have an extremely C&V friendly LBS that's used to dealing with odd sizes.

Thanks for the latest posts.

The measurements you're explaining for stack height makes good sense. So I measured...
a, steer tube at a hair over 7 1/2"
b, head tube at 6 1/4"

= right around 32mm

So again I have a very short stack but now confident in the info I have. I will opt for a Tange Levin as in my earlier picture/post.

BTW, I'm converting this 7 cog 600EX to a 10 cog 105. I have stripped all the parts off and no longer need them. Would this stuff be of any worth to anyone?

The Tange Levin is a great headset, and less than $20. Stack hieght is 33.3mm.

There seem to be two Tange Levins. The one advertised on the Harris Cyclery web site says 33.4 stack, part HD1001. I believe it has the smooth rounded cups like the chromed item shown above in this thread.

SomaFab.com has another Tange Levin headset that has a square groove with lettering around each cup -- this looks like the old Campagnolo Nuovo or Super Record headsets. And it has a somewhat taller stack they say -- about 38. I have one of these, not from Soma, but NOS from eBay, and it measures about 38.7.

If you get the smooth Levin, you should be able to lower the stack a bit by omitting the washer on top. The washer in the photo looks really thin already -- I don't think you'll find a thinner one.

I was looking at This One.

I have the same headset, only ISO, on my Palo Alto.

That's the very one I ordered for my Shogun touring bike. I was impressed with the quality, and will search one out whenever I need a new headset. They're rock solid and smooth. Just don't over tighten it like my LBS did. They left the top nut loose so I could install the cantilever bracket, but the adjustable race was WAY too tight. Not sure how that happened, but I got it backed off before any damage was done. Maybe the mechanic was inexperienced with a non integrated headset? Sad but possible.,,,,BD

I can honestly say that I've learned more about threaded headsets this weekend than all my years of riding, and that's why I love this place

It's taken me 40 years to learn half of what I know now!

Sorry to briefly drift this off topic, but what's the deal with the bicycle license plate? Does Washington State require them now?

Back to headsets. Find a nice one with a short stack height. Spacers are cheap and easy to get if you need more height.

No, it's a new plate that they're offering as an alternative form the standard. For a small fee.