Hi,
I have 2 questions with regard to a mid-30's Gloria I bought in "as found" condition. (https://www.speedbicycles.ch/272/index.html)

1) What, if anything, should one do to preserve its state? I don't want to do anything that will alter its appearance to any great degree. It looks beautiful to me the way it is. But its spokes and freewheel are rusty; maybe other parts, too. I want to stabilize it so it's not needlessly deteriorating. I asked the seller what he'd recommend and his response was that he was about to ask me the same thing.

2) With regard to its plastic handlebar wrap, that can't possibly be period correct, can it? My impression is that cloth handlebar tape is what was around then:

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Ita..._bike_1937.htm

However, I see one with the same plastic blue wrap here:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...olnago_Museum1

(I'm told that, contrary to the caption, that bike wasn't Ernesto's. It was donated by a local collector.)

I am not a pro here but that isn't a 1930s bike. Maybe 1950s at the earliest.
Am I wrong?

I just need to say that you have a work of art and I must have looked at those photos dozens of times when it was on eBay. The patina alone is worth the price you paid. I think if the tape has been on the bike for a while, it is a part of its history, just like the rest of the bike. I think you should keep it as is. It's as close to original as it will ever get.

PS- My favorite part of the bike is the twine cable guide.

I have a 1948 Arbos and a mid-40's Benotto and the parts on this look ancient by comparison, particularly the wooden rims, the old 3-speed freewheel and Simplex TdF rear derailleur. No, I'm pretty sure it's pre-war.

Edit: Another reason I feel this one is pre-war (aside from its looking like the one on the CR site) is that the seller has pics of a '48 Gloria, which looks much different from this one and more like my 1940's bikes.

https://www.speedbicycles.ch/217/index.html

Thank you. That's very kind of you. I've always really liked their fleur-de-lis lugs and nickel plating. It was probably quite a sight when new. I wasn't even going to post about this bike, but I got to worrying that it might be rusting without my even knowing it. I'm not anxious to alter it in any way, but I don't want my inaction to worsen its condition. So I'm just soliciting opinions.

Wow that bike is pretty light...

11 kg's for a pre world war bike? Wow...

Not to mention that it looks absolutely amazing...

I'll have to take the seller's word on its weight seeing as how it's disassembled. But thanks for the compliment.

I would guess it was made either just before or just after WWII. It is a great find!

Replace that chain ASAP, before it damages your chainring and cogs any further -- it has elongated far beyond the late Sheldon's 1/2 percent replacement threshold.

Having been guilty of over-restoring a few, I'd vote that you leave it as is. My only caveats would be to treat the inside of the frame with some kind of frame saver (linseed oil would be period correct, if you want to go to extremes), and a complete and thorough rebuild, so that you can ride it. It was made to be used, of course, and we'd all like to hear your impressions of the ride.

(Tires may prove to be a little problematic, no?)

Hehe, thanks. I forgot to mention that this one is strictly a wall hanger. I have a spare frame in rough condition that, at some point, I'll restore and ride. This one I'd like to leave as is, except for maybe doing a light, careful cleaning of it. With respect to the chain, I'd like to clean some of the gunk off of it and just leave it draped over the cogs and chainwheel. I don't want to damage them by using the chain, but the chain itself really won't be seeing any use. My biggest worry is the rust. As Neil Young says, "rust never sleeps." I believe him.

Ahh, thank you. Yes, the tires, wooden rims and rusted spokes are reason enough for me not to ride it. As mentioned in my last post, I'll build up another frame and ride it. But with this one I'm mostly worried about creeping rust. I'm not really familiar with linseed oil. I've since read a little about Framesaver and oxalic acid, but am probably too chicken to try them on this particular frame. So I may consult a restorer to assist.

As for the web site you mentioned, that's Stefan Schaefter's. He is a very nice, knowledgeable Swiss collector. He has quite the collection of bikes, doesn't he?

gridplan, I do envy you, that is one fine bike. I believe I started a thread or talked a lot in a different thread about that bike when it was up for auction. Unfortunately, the search function is not working well right now. When it is better I will post the thread.

As for the age, in my mind there is no doubt, that is a prewar Gloria. The geometry, the Universal brakes, the non-use of chrome all says prewar. I especially love the fenders, oh so sweet.

As others know here, I am a pretty strict preservationalist, it is only original once. As soon as you repaint or re-nickel plate or change anything, the orginality is lost forever, never to be known again. Yes I am being mellow-dramatic but I tend to be somewhat alone with my views so I like to be a strong advocate of preservation. Here is an excellent article about automobile preservation, https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/au...in&oref=slogin

But, I will assume you want the bike functional and I can tell you finding parts form the 30s can be difficult at best. You can get the stuff, but you must have a lot of patience. If you can't wait, I would recommend keeping the original parts and ride with the replacements while you are acquiring the period correct parts. Your wood rims are a good example, I don't think I would want to ride on 70-year-old wood. (insert dirty joke here )

As for the finish, tear the bike down, clean it (get rid of dirt and rust), repack with fresh grease and wax the paint, nickel and any bare areas on the frame and components. That should prevent any further corrosion. I understand this is your bike and we are in America and you have every right to paint flames on it, spread the back to put a 10-speed cog and have carbon wing-bars, but please don't. If it were mine, I would never consider new nickel, paint or anything unless it necessary for the function of the bike, e.g., it needs a new top tube, you should put paint on the new top tube.

One advantage to these very old bikes, the individual components back then were made for several years if not decades. Your chain is an excellent example. Originally it could have had a Regina GS (Gran Sport). Regina made those chains well into the 50s and I bought a NOS one not too long ago. Christophe old logo toe clips are another example. They made the same thing from the 30s to the 70s. Your question about the bar tape is another good example. The plastic is most definately period incorrect but it is easy to pick up Gaslo tape which would be period correct.

I have some questions if you don't mind. Are the brake levers cast aluminum? They look solid, not the typical bent aluminum sheet. Is the stem a steel Ambrosio? It looks like it from the picture but it is hard to tell. Also, are there other words stamped on the stem? What is the diameter of the handlebars? That can also solidify dating the bike. Is there a stamp on the toe clips and pedals? I would love to know who manufactured those. As a matter of fact, I would really love a list of the component manufacturers when you get the time.

I would be happy to help with any questions you may have as you work on the bike. Please don't hesitate to contact me.

The National Regester of historical preservation has a reserch center for preserving all types of stuff.Not sure how to contact them but worth looking for.

I found the thread where I mentioned your bike, https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...+only+original

And here is a quote from me threatening you in that thread, sorry about that .

iab, that article is an excellent example of why I usually would recommend restoration or at least partial restoration. There is a huge difference between "patina" and damage, even if the damage is within the limits of what one might consider normal wear and tear. The Jag in that article is an historical oddity, maintained in its original condition and hardly used for many years. I met a guy that had a couple of vintage motorcycles in his living room (I'm guessing he was single but I didn't know him that well) that had never been ridden and another that had a Z-28 that had been preserved and placed in storage as soon as it was bought. I would not touch any of those vehicles but I also don't consider any of them "normal" in any way. "Normal" people buy vehicles to drive/ride and use them regularly be they cars, motorcycles, bicycles, or whatever. A fine piece of furniture or silver tea service can last for centuries of normal use and develope patina. Vehicles generally do not. They just wear out. Metals corrode, paint fades or flakes off, rubber becomes dry-rotted. So if the brake pads wear out I replace them. If the bearings in the hubs wear out I replace them. Why would I not also replace the decals or the paint, or the nickel/chrome when it wears out, assuming it's feasable to do so?

Thanks for the info. When it comes to bikes like this, I am also a strict preservationist. It's obviously been in this state long enough that it deserves to be kept as is (my only doubt w.r.t. parts being the handlebar tape). The seller, Stefan, echoed your concerns when I bought it. I reassured him that I'd not do anything radical. In fact, I may not do anything at all. But I am interested in inhibiting rust. I posted these questions after wondering if Framesaver would be appropriate for another (much newer) bike I'm working on. In any case, I will ensure that this bike keeps its patina, which is very important to me. I'm not going to re-nickel, repaint or re-chrome anything. I just want to lose some of its grime -- on the chain, in the headset, bottom bracket, etc. I don't want a full restoration, just a light cleaning. I want it to be functional, but never used, at least by me. Many would probably say that's a waste of effort. But I have another Gloria frame and miscellaneous parts that I will one day have restored; that's the one I'll ride. I really just want to preserve this one.

As for your question about the parts, I'll have to update this thread in the coming days, as my schedule allows. All the parts are safely packed away.

Haha. Quite alright. But I would recommend you choose a newer wheel so as not to further damage the bike.

Edited.

Thanks very much. Mostly I've been searching through the Classic Rendezvous archives for insights, but I will have to investigate that. I'm wondering if things like Framesaver and/or oxalic acid would be safe on a frame like this. I want to inhibit rust, but I don't want to damage the paint or what's left of its nickel plating.

Sorry to paraphrase you but I wanted to cut to the chase. And I would like to say these are only my personal views, you can do what you please with your bikes. A 0.125" ball bearing is a 0.125" ball bearing, replacing a worn one is imperceptible. But a Model 35 Universal brake is not a Model 39 Universal brake (assuming this bike is from 1935). If the original brake is working, there is no reason to replace it. But if it is broken, a period correct Model 35 replacement is, in my view, perfectly acceptable if you still want to use the bike. I would keep the broken brake though, it would never become landfill. A Model 39 was not available at the time and technically no better for the bike than some Zero Gravity brakes. Now, if you can get the Model 35 and you have some 39s to use, great, but I would still be working on getting some 35s.

But that's about very functional components, let's talk about finish. Other than inhibiting rust, paint, nickel, chrome and decals (they offer no rust protection) are purely cosmetic. With paint, ask any painter, if you are not using paint from the same lot, it will never match and you will cover the original aesthetic, it will be gone forever. Decals are similar in that unless you have some NOS versions, any replacements will never match. Replating nickel or chrome will destroy any original paint. Now if the majority of paint was missing, I would consider a repaint, but it would take me a long time to make that decision.

Now also consider how you will use the bike. If the bike has a high value to you, you will probably not use it as a winter beater or a commuter. Determining that personal value is subjective. This particular Gloria is objectively quite rare, there are probably very few left. For me, that raises it's subjective value. I am also drawn to bikes of that era. I wouldn't ride it often, only the occassional Sunday ride, never in salt or rain and certainly not in a race. With that kind of light riding, there is no reason to believe it wouldn't last another 70 years. So really there is no need to repaint or replate the frame or components when wax will protect any bare metal.

I also like the history the patena holds. I like looking at the chips in the paint and imagining the circumstances of how the chip happened. I have heard the arguement that if Fausto Coppi's sweat didn't cause the rust then it isn't worth keeping. I find the whole "only famous people make history" to be bunk. I find it much more interesting to know how everyday people led their lives than the famous. I can relate to the commoners much better.

No problem, and I'm not really arguing that this bike needs restoration - it's in remarkably good condition as is and as the OP points out he has another frame that he is going to restore and ride (ok, I might personally want to do something with that headset but that's just me, the rest of it is fine). But realistically, even the original bikes varied some from one to another. They were after all hand made, often in small shops and paint batches and decals varied somewhat from one batch to the next so unless you were trying to recreate some specific bike (like Fausto's) I don't see that slight variations in the paint shade or decals would matter compared to leaving a bike looking really dingy and worn. I've seen folks arguing that chips in the paint should only be covered with clear coat just to protect the steel but I wouldn't have done that when it was new so why would I do it now? Take my Bianchi for example - it's only 5 years old but it has a number of chips and scratches picked up over the years through normal use. I've touched them up as required. I've also upgraded components or changed components for better fit and comfort. So if I keep that bike for another 40 years, presumably cleaning and touching it up and modifying it along the way, at what point do I suddenly stop and say from now on I'm going to leave it as is and only protect it from corrosion? And how is that different if I bought a vintage bike that was presumably cared for in similar fashion over the years by its original owner? I guess to each his or her own

It took me a minute to figure that out...and yes, he has a real collection.

"...technically no better for the bike than some Zero Gravity brakes..."

I have a friend with a Hotrod Henry J. It sports a monster engine from an early 60's Cadillac, among other things. He is conserving it in its final state, and I think that is appropriate too.

Mind you, I'm not advocating the hotrodding of historical pieces, just noting that humans are certainly capable of doing this sort of thing, sometimes even well. It is all part of the history of the object, no?

I don't think that you'd have enough reach with ZG brakes, though...

Hey Kommisar, sorry for the delay, I got a new job and they block BF .

I agree, it is very easy to say this bike does not need a restoration. But unfortunately, I have no hard and fast line on when to preserve and when not. I also have a bike that is only 4 years old but unlike you, I don't touch up any dings in the paint. I value it as a very utilitarian vehicle, the paint chips are not affecting that utility and I won't bother with the repair. But if I hold on to that bike for the next 40 years, the value to me switches from being purely functional to having value due to it's history. Again, I find that point of change to be subjective and I can't say at 27 years 9 months and 16 days the historical value automatically kicks in. It's kind of like porn, I know it when I see it.

No wonder they block BF at your office

But seriously, the other thing that I was thinking but didn't mention is that I suspect all to often the bike is not in the "original" condition - and by that I don't like it rolled out of the factory but as it was when it was used and ridden whether by somebody famous or just a regular guy. When I see a bike that's 30-50 years old or more, and the paint is faded and flaking off and the chrome is rusted and the bar tape is tatered and worn, I don't think of it as having gotten that way from being well used and ridden hard over the years. Rather, I think that while it may have been well used and ridden hard, at some point it got relagated to a dank basement or the back room of a shop and there the damage ocurred. When it was put there it was probably in pretty good shape but it has since suffered from years of neglect that have resulted in its present condition. I don't necessarily want to undue the normal wear and tear that forms the patina of a vintage bike. That's where I think the partial restoration comes in - just undoing the damage that occured after the bike stopped being cared for and maintained. In the case of my Bottecchia that wasn't really a major problem - rather, the original owner maintained it well but in a way that I would not have (i.e. - he replaced the original Campagnolo rear derailleur with a Suntour, replaced the leather saddle with a plastic one, etc) so I "corrected" his changes not necessarily to original spec but to what I would have done myself if I had the bike then so for example, I used a Nuovo Record rear derailleur which would have been an upgrade to original spec. It gives it a personal touch.