Cable question:

Over the bottom bracket metal cable guides on a vintage frame...should there be some kind of housing stuffed in there? I just ran the cables bare yesterday, and after the fact whilst looking at it the thought occurred to me that perhaps I had screwed up and there was supposed to me cable housing in those metal guides.

Of course, what would I "stop" the housing with on either end so it didn't wriggle free over time with repeated shiftings?

Other observations:

Suntour Symmetric shifters are really, really neat. Mr. Brown (peace be upon him) was wrong about how they "trim". It doesn't constantly trim downwards by rotating the front shift lever. The cam in the mechanism actually physically moves the lever down the downtube, thus relaxing cable tension and trimming the front cage inwards...but the lever moves right back up when you shift back to smaller cogs on the rear. Easy to set up...just set the low end cable tension for the front derailer with the rear on the largest cog (thusly already "trimmed") and it is interference free through the entire mostion. Very trick, and I'm in love with it though I haven't even been out for a test ride. (The lack of a stem is slowing me down a bit.)

7 speed does not interchange seamlessly with 6 speed in the slightest. Yes, it "fits" the 126 OLD dropouts...but not without gouging the chainstay everytime I remove the wheel. Nor does it actually provide room for the chain to clear the seatstay. To make it work I would actually have to respace the frame to 130mm, and add spacers to the hub. Dumb. If I was doing that, I would have respaced to 130 when I started this project, and then bought some modern 105 hubs and put an 8 speed cassette on the rear.

I went with 6 speed to assuage my frustration. Maybe in the future an 8 speed re-do will be in the works, but I don't want to spend the money or re-build wheels that haven't even been out for a ride yet.

Cheers!

No one can tell me if I need cable housing?

For the RD cable, the cable runs nekkid all the way through to the ferrule on the end of the chainstay. Then there is housing from there to the RD. For the FD, the cable runs nekkid to the over-the-BB cable-guide, and then there is cable housing from the other side of the guide to the FD.

Don't the front derailleur cables on some go nekkid all the way to the FD? I thought some did.

Either way Banzai, if you're worriwed about friction, don't sweat it, just add a little lube, that is what I do. The derailleur cables don't do that much moving.

I just thought of the difference. If it is a clamped on guide then the front usually does have housing.

If the front derailleur guide is brazed on, and has a gentle curve (just a little tighter than the guide for the rear) then you should run bare all the way to the FD.

Clamped on (and maybe some brazed on) require housing, but if so, it should look like a cable stop, and not a guide. (I hope that makes sense)

EDIT: I just remembered that my modern 105 components (installed by the LBS) have a skinny plastic piece that is positioned under the guides, but I really don't think it is necessary. It might reduce friction a bit, but not much.

Thanks for the reply. Based on everything it looks like I'm good to go with nekkid cables.

I'm not terribly worried about friction interfering with shifting (friction shifters anyway)...I was just wondering if I was running the risk of damaging anything if I had done it wrong. Thanks again for the insight...being newer than many to bicycles, I've only ever been exposed to under the bottom bracket routing with the little plastic doohicky.

So I'm good to go, and the project continues along. Just ordered the stem!

Late to the party...
Don't worry, cables route nekked, no liners, just grease the guide area and run the cables through.
As for the freewheel trouble, can't help you there, as I've not run into that problem. My 126mm spaced frame and Campy hubs took a 7-spd Suntour Winner Pro Ultra7 without drama. No chain clearance issues.
Odd problem you got there. I'd check the frame to see if it's truly 126mm, as some frames back then came in between 120 and 126mm to accommodate both 5 and 6 speed.

heh heh..... every post has the word nekkid..... heh heh.

YOU started it!!!

That was actually the very first thing I checked. It came out to 126 exactly. Problem is that the Shimano freewheel doesn't reduce the spacing between the cogs for the 7 speed...it just adds another cog on. If it dropped the spacing to about 3mm (like an 8 speed) it would work beautifully. Spaced as is, it has all the problems I described. And it's not like the chain totally doesn't clear...there's almost a millimeter of space between it and the seat stay, which means sometimes it scrapes it.

No way around the small cog gouging my frame without significant respacing. And, like I said...I would have gone 8 speed with a modern cassette/hub combo if I were to respace.

I've read that the old Suntour 7 speed freewheels were actually spaced tighter on the cogs, so they work nicely in the space provided.

My bad. I assumed all 7 spd freewheels were this narrow spaced spec. IIRC, 130mm spacing came out for 8 spd cassettes. If all they did was add another cog to a standard 6 spd freewheel, then it was pretty stupid of Shimano. Hmm, I wonder if this is a MTB freewheel? Shouldn't make a difference though.

Oh, to keep BBM happy, 'nekkid'.

A few bikes, such as the Peugeot UO-8/AO-8, use short lengths of cable housings above the bottom bracket, but this is pretty obvious from the design of the braze-ons. Some bottom pull front derailleurs, including various old Simplex and SunTour models, are shifted by being pushed from below by a housing in compression, rather than by being pulled by a cable in tension.

I had the opposite problem on Capo #1, with a modern Campagnolo derailleur and a clamp-on-guide designed for over-the-bottom bracket routing. I solved the problem by running a short length of unterminated cable housing under the bottom bracket shell -- works like a champ. I think Sheldon recommended something similar in one of his website articles.

Regarding 7 speed freewheels fitting in 126 spacing: sure they can, and they commonly did. Early 126 spaced wheels were often tossed together with lots of room on either side, with plenty of space for 6-speed freewheels, but never anticipating another full spaced cog. Really, there could be a number of issues here. One solution would be to add to the spacing on the drive side and reduce the space allowance on the left. We often would just change the serrated locknut on the left if the one already on the hub seemed rather wide. {see the photo I just shot - Below} There were usually lots of thinner ones in the nut-n'-washer bucket in the ol' shop. If that outer locknut does not seem very wide, there are likely some thick washers or spacers in there somewhere. You would probably need to re-dish the wheel a tiny bit too - just a turn or two on each spoke nipple turned the appropriate directions should be enough.

The tight drive side spacing was sometimes not just an issue with wider freewheels, but when using longer bolts on eyelets for mounting racks or fenders. The inner nuts often added to unthreaded eyelets could instantly obstruct a chain on the shift to or from the smallest cog. Before you give up on 7-speeds or consider re-setting your frame to 130 mm, I'd just check the axle to see how much you can shift additional spacing over to the drive side. 5 mm is usually not that much to finesse over. Another helpful switch could be a different chain. I commonly use 8-speed chains on 5-speed freewheels. These are narrower in their overall outer width than 5/6 speed chains which usually have long protruding rivets. Newer chains are also just a lot more quiet in operation too - yet another excuse to change them.

Just a couple thoughts for your consideration. Good Luck!

Thanks for the thoughts.

I already purchased a 6 speed free-wheel, so I guess I'll just stick with that. As far as adding washers goes, I can't figure out how to remove the locknut on this old Mavic hub...It just spins freely. Since I've already purchased the 6 speed one, it's probably not worth the effort to re-dish that wheel either.

Oh, Ashley, I am using an 8 speed chain (SRAM PC-890)...so I would hope that would be narrow enough.

Without modifications, the 7 speed freewheel certainly "fits" the spacing...but it's not pretty, and has the complications I mentioned.

What a pain!