AnnaLynn

I need some answers. I have been reading past posts and have searched the internet but cannot find the information I am looking for. I am considering purchasing a 70's Bottecchia. But what I need to know before I do, When was Bottecchia USA founded, (don't want that) and also I read in another thread the real Bottecchia from Italy went out of business and sold there name. When was that???

Just want to know what I am getting, I want the real thing, the Italian thing, the original, and I am way to new to this, lol

unworthy1

I never knew there WAS any American Bottechia...suffice it to say: if it's from the '70s it's from Italy. There should be a round decal somewhere on it with "Carnielle" (sorry, probably misspelled) which was the builder in Veneto.

cuda2k

As far as I know "Bottecchia USA", bought the US rights to the Bottecchia name within the last couple of years.

Kommisar89

Ahh, that age old question. The original Bottecchia was not actually a company but brand marketed by Teodoro Carnielli & Co. of Vittorio Veneto, Italy. Carnielli began producing the Bottecchia brand in cooperation with Ottavio Bottecchia after his Tour victories and shortly before his death I believe in 1926 or there abouts. Carnielli continued to produce bicycles under the Bottecchia brand until 1997 when they sold off the name to the Turato family who, according to the Bottecchia Australia website https://www.bottecchia.com.au/aboutbo...a-history.html , have two generations of history in bike manufacture with another Italian company, Cicli Esperia for whatever that's worth. Carnielli & Co. is still in business and still produces bicycles but not under the Bottecchia brand. The new company has no connection to Bottecchia USA other than licensing the name to Bikes Direct. So anything from 1997 or earlier will be a "real" Bottecchia and should bear the Carnielli decal. From 1998 until a couple of years ago, I didn't see any presence of Bottecchia anywhere. Even the www.bottecchia.com website was just a place holder. Then they popped up like phoenix risen from the ashes and as far as I can tell from their website they make some pretty nice modern bikes but they don't have a US distributor.

Let me know if you have any questions about particular models or anything else to do with vintage Bottecchias, I'd be happy to try to answer.

redneckwes

I spend a few minutes on a new thread and miss all the fun!


Edit: I ranted, I have the flu, had a terrible headache, and at times I am a reactionairy psyco, but I still don't like what BD does.

Bottecchia USA is just a junk dealer who imports crap from the far east and slaps Bottecchia decals all over them. BD are the sleazy used car lot of the cycling world. Dawes, Windsor, Motobecane, Mercier and now Gazelle brands are now being dragged through the mud by these...people.

Edit: My Degree is in History, my next one will be too, and the one after that. History demands a certain level of clarification, my words were too strong, but these brands are not what they claim, and we must at times for the record show that. Motobecane became MBK, they still exist, Dawes still exists, Bottecchia in one form in Italy, still exists, Gazelle still makes their own bikes in Holland.

man that felt good

My 70's Bottecchia,
https://historynut.bravehost.com/Bott...Bottechia.html

moki

Whoah. No half-stepping.

I'm going to put myself in the ridiculous position of defending BD, and state that the vast majority of lowish to highish end bikes (say, from $300-$3000) are made in the "far east". In all likelyhood, BD frames are made in the same factories that produce big 3 frames, and probably a lot of faux-boutique euro frames. Like it or not, most all bikes on the road are pieces of sleazy far east junk, from w-mart krap to full carbon 15lb DA racing rigs.

Of course I have problems with the BD business model, but the devil is in the details, and by using blanket statements such as you have done shows an unwillingness to accept the fact that Taiwanese and Japanese companies have managed to produce bikes that are lighter, tougher, straighter, more reliable and durable, and yes, faster, than Europe or NA ever has.

Not all Italian bikes are Masis (real Masis, that is). Bottecchia, Motobecane, Mercier, and probably some of the other resurrected brands built some real dogs back in the day, and there is no way that the parts on those bikes outperform even low-end Shimano and FSA. Different eras, apples and oranges you say. How much bang for the buck do gen-u-wine euro-made frames and components offer to the average rider not looking to spend $5000 on a new bike?

I'm no newschool carbon lover - I've never owned an aluminum frame or a scrap of CF. But then again, I spend an inordinate amount of time wrenching, searching out deals, and smooth talking old bike nerds out of their underused rides. Some folks just want to get out and ride, so if they want to spend $1000 for a 105-equipped Motobecane instead of $1500 for the same bike with Giant decals, who cares? I'd like to think I have a growing appreciation for all aspects of cyclecraft. At the same time, I'm not dismissive of all things Asian, nor on the people who buy, sell, and fix these factory bikes, so long as they are treating it seriously.

For all its flaws, BD is offering, by most accounts, good value. Good or bad, they and the discount bike e-sites are forcing brick and mortar retailers to change their game by improving service. Yeah, a Masi Coltello ain't the same thing as a Confente-built GC, but it doesn't cost $kajillion either.

redneckwes

Moki,

I came across a bit strong there, sorry for that.

My problem is not with where the bikes are made, it's the pilferd history that bothers me. BD has absolutely no connection with these old names, (Save for a tenous link to Motobecane) yet they claim all their history. If they had set out to start fresh I would have no problem with them at all.

Even today's incarnation of Raleigh USA has a continous link to Nottingham, even if everything is made in the far east.

Edit: I should also say, that apples for apples, I do not believe Asian framebuilding could touch what came out of Europe in the 70's and 80's, the market moved to a cheaper alternative.

monogodo

Shouldn't some of your anger be directed at the companies who chose to sell the rights to their names?

lotek 

how many of those companies were out of business? It's just a question of registering the name, I think.
The one question I have is how can BD market Gazelle? they (BD) must have an agreement with
Gazelle as Gazelle is still in operation.

Marty

redneckwes

You are right of course, though I think anger is a strong word for it. Obviously we don't and probably won't ever know the details on how they came to have the rights to use these names. I do know, that in the 70's and 80's a lot of European makers set up marketing deals with american distributers to sell there products here. Sometimes, granting license to use the name was part of that deal I suppose.

I won't post any more on it, obviously as a student of history I probably have a far different viewpoint on the subject than most will have. Honesty and tradition are very important to me.

AnnaLynn

Thank you so much for the information, I am still in the consideration phase, it is $265. Here is the ad:
I have a Bottecchia from the '70's that I built into a single speed not too long ago that I would like to sell. The frame, I beleive, is the entry level DeLuxe model and is white with lots of "character". I put on brand new wheels with flip-flop hubs, a 16 tooth freewheel and new tires. If you wanted to, you could put a different cog on the rear and make it a fixed gear. I have $200.00 in the wheel set-up. I also added new handlebars, saddle, brake pads and levers, bottom bracket and chainring. I know there are lots of single speeds out there but this one is a little different than most
And a link to the pics, https://springfield.craigslist.org/bik/596875252.html

AnnaLynn

I guess everything being said, I am new to bikes, but in other aspects of my life I seek out the original, the hard to find, the rare. I don't ride alot, but what I ride, I want it to be special, and preferably Italian, but that preference is because I am Italian, 100%.
Anna

AnnaLynn

Ha!!! They don't even know, I called Bottecchia USA down in Houston, TX on Friday seeking answers, and they had know idea as to when they acquired the name, and of course gave me the story that ALL bikes are made in 1 of 3 factories in the "far east". They also had NO idea of the history of Bottecchia. The only thing that did seem to know was how to pronounce the name.

In all fairness though, the guy I spoke with was very nice, and we also talked about Masi and Motobecane as an option, as well as Bianchi. I think in the end the kind of riding I will be be doing on an every day basis, I might look into a Bianchi, of course I am sure before it is all over I will have more than a couple of bikes sitting in my kitchen.

Right now my boyfriend gave me an old mountain bike till I get what I want. It's an '84 Schwinn High Sierra. I am going to conmvert it to a soingle speed and keep it, but I will ride Italian SOON!!!

redneckwes

Anna,

Re: The Bottecchia
Thats a very high price for an entry level bike missing all it's factory components.

Motobecane/MBK(France), is not the same company as Motobecane USA One made some of the most beautiful mass market bikes ever, one imports generic bikes from Taiwan.

redneckwes

My Early 70's DeLuxe,

Kommisar89

Anna,

I'll second what redneckwes says, too much money for that model even in very nice condition and that one has been hacked and fixed. The De Luxe was Bottecchia's entry level model in the 70's and one in nice shape today probably would not go for more than $100. Like many folks on this forum I'm one of those people who would put far more money into an old bike than it's worth but you can't expect to get that back out of it if you sell it. I'd pass.

-Derrick

AnnaLynn

Thanks guys! I did decide to pass, and wait for something I truly want

Mooo

Yeah, I think I'd have trouble supporting that sort of ethic too.
They bought the name rights because someone else built into it some value.
They'll trade on that perception until the name is recognized as junk, then repeat with something else.

It isn't technically illegal, but it ought to be.

sykerocker 

Unfortunately, that's the way of marketing. It's much easier to resurrect a defunct name than come up with something new and original.

And bicycles aren't the worst - motorcycles have been doing the same thing for decades, only cheaper and sleazier than bicycling has ever attempted. As a motorcycle lover and an owner of a 1930 Indian Scout, you have no idea just how badly I'd love to see the Indian name finally be allowed to die - even though the last attempt at reincarnating the marque produced some nice bikes, and I'd like to own one. As to the seven previous attempts, don't get me started.

Somebody's attempting to restart Vincent, using a Honda engine (to you non-motorheads, try to visualize Pacific Cycles claiming to do a Confente Masi). And there's a bunch of other marques getting the same treatment. Only Triumph rises above this mess, as the guy who bought the company back in '84 from bankruptcy is the same guy putting out the current bikes. It's still the same company, just under new ownership.

Just the same, in the midst if being offended, stop and think for a moment. If Bottachia, Windsor, Motobecane, Mercier or Dawes had actually survived as a company - intact - never missing a model year, would their products be any different or distinguishable from whatever Bikes Direct is currently selling? To anyone who doesn't bother tracing a brands lineage?

I'm afraid not. Such is the realities of the marketplace.

redneckwes

I have to respectively disagree,

Bottecchia survives, Some made in Italy (As far as I know) but not imported here. Motobecane survives as "MBK", Not in the states alas. Dawes survives, produced in the far east, but they have the lineage at least. Gazelle survives, making their bikes in Holland.

MBK is somehow not even allowed to use "Motobecane" anymore...

sykerocker 

To requote my previous post: Such are the realities of the marketplace. Add to your examples the Australian Gitanes, which have absolutely nothing to do with the French Gitanes, other than the spelling on the downtube. And that goes back something like 20-25 years. If a company can't keep control of their own name, I have very little sympathy for them.

I've been under the impression that, if a cut rate outfit is using a classic name, then the classic company went belly up. If that's not true, than said classic company has done something really stupid to enable someone else to get legal use of their name.

And the bottom line is 'legal', not 'moral'. Moral ain't got nothing to do with making a buck.

redneckwes

To heck with it.


Tomorrow I'm starting "George Washington's mail order Pornography"

chgviews001

Hello, I've got an all-chrome Bottecchia with a serial number on the top of the seat tube 115540. A decal on the seat tube states among other things, Carnielli - 1911-1961. Was this bike made in 1961? Was it a commemorative model? Thanks

DMC707

Holy old thread BAtman ! --- Timely as i just looked at a Bottecchia frame on ebay this morning though --- nice pearl white job in my size

--- Cromor tubeset though or i may have been more interested

Centaurious

Bikes and Motorcycles having their names reused for cheap goods is nothing compared to what has happened to Watches.