OK, I am really starting to get jealous of the modern drivetrains I see on my club rides.

I am riding a 1986 steel frame with full dura-ace 7400 6 speed...works fine but I am considering changing to 9 or 10 speed with brifters. The question is can I keep my front and rear derailleurs? I am hoping I could, to save money. I would ideally just buy the brifters, cassette/cogs (and a new rear wheel), and a chain. Heck, I would even keep the DT front derailleur (a la Lance) if it would save me a few bucks.

Would this work?

Doug
1986 Alpine

Doug,

While I understand being frugal, I think that the Brifters are like 90% of the upgrade cost...

You can do it directly only if you find a set of DA shifters from pre-9 speed.

Otherwise, you are in bad luck... Pre 9 speed Dura-Ace used a different amount of cable pull than any other Shimano indexed shifting RDs... Every other index capable RD, road or mountain was the same (regarding pull) except for the older DA stuff. (I read somewhere that Shimano is repeating that mistake by making the newest DA pull a different amount... but probably still not the same as the old DA).

If 7400 was index capable, then look here for another alternative:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

It looks like you can run an 8 speed cassette off of any Shimano 9 speed shifter with the early DA derailleur.

On the bright side, I think a down tube FD would probably be doable... However, I don't think anyone makes a left side brake lever with the same look and feel of a Shimano brifter, so you will probably be lopsided looking (and perhaps feeling).

Darwin,

Thanks for the info and the link. Looks like if/when the time comes I will have to bite the bullet and buy a whole new drivetrain then. I suspect even my 7400 crank will need newer skinnier chainrings. The potential upgrade is probably 1-2 years away then.

Sigh.

Doug

The older cranks would be fine up to 8 speed, and maybe even 9/10 speed.

From what I understand, the chains for 9 and 10 speed are narrower on the outside, but the inside is the same. I know 10 speed chainrings are closer together, but I don't know if it is essential, or just optimal.

Sorry the information wasn't more beneficial, but you should probably still keep your eyes open for 8 speed DA shifters on Ebay if that holds any interest... It seems like I see them occasionally. Then all you should need is cable stops for the down tube braze-ons and a rear wheel. BTW - I believe the spacing on cassettes was the same for DA and other lines, it is just the RD and shifters that Shimano made to a different spec.

Read Sheldon's site carefully, and you'll notice he says that the spiders on 8, 9, and 10 speed cranks are the same, only the chainring width changes. He doesn't say this explicitly, but says that 8 speed crank spiders are the same as 9 speed crank spiders, and then somewhere else says that 9 speed crank spiders are the same as 10 speed crank spiders. Therefore, by the transitive property....

I don't know Shimano stuff very well at all but my feeling is that if you want to change the drivetrain, it's best to bite the bullet.... and change the drivetrain.

I'm not saying that Darwin's plan wouldn't work and just about everything pops up on eBay eventually but from what I understand mixing and matching Shimano is not easy.

Thanks for the comment, and I tend to agree....but then one can argue, if I upgrade the drivetrain maybe I should just get a whole new bike? It gets expensive very quickly! For now, it's DT shifters and 6 speeds in back, which to be honest still works quite well.

Then again, I do see a set of 8 speed brifters on Ebay....hmmm....maybe I can do a poor man's upgrade to 8 speed brifters and keep my FD/RD/crank rings etc.

I didn't change anything but the shifters, but I just upgraded my 92 Paramount 7 speed to brifters. I have 600 derailleurs. The brifters are either 105 or RSX, but they work perfectly and I love the change.

Yup, that's what I'd recommend. Consider, if you upgrade to RSX 7 speed, you can keep your rear wheel, add a 7 speed freewheel, redish the wheel and your good to go. Well, maybe you'll have to replace the DA rear derailer, I'm not sure. I'm going to make the same change to an 86 Fuji Team.
There are no spacing issues if you upgrade to 7 speed because it will fit in a 126mm frame. You can probably make this change for under or close to $100.

OK, follow-up question. If I were to upgrade to 8 speed STI brifters, it sounds like my vintage 7400 RD and chainrings would work fine (per above posting and sheldon's website)....but I would also need an 8 speed cassette, which I see on ebay at reasonable prices. Would the 8 speed cassette fit onto a modern LBS factory-built shimano compatible rear wheel/hub??? Sorry if this is a "dumb" question but I didn't see it addressed anywhere.

Doug

That is a good question. Almost all large Shimano freehubs will hold eight, nine and ten speed cassettes. MTB, road and hybrid Shimano freehubs are pretty much the same. The only freehub that won't take a eight speed cassette is the smaller seven speed freehub. You may have to spread your frame a little to accomodate the larger, 130mm axle for the larger freehub (if your frame is 126mm). But that's usually no big deal UNLESS your frame is one of those older aluminum tubes bonded to steel. I've been told some of them failed when stressed to 130mm.

Thanks...I am aware that I will have to spread my rear triangle, but from what i have read and heard, given that its a steel frame, it should be a non-issue.

BTW - My explanations above were simply laying out alternatives.

If it were me, well, actually it was me in a way...

I happened to have the budget to do it right. I bought a vintage bike and had everything replaced and built with 105 level 10 speed compact double components. It cost about as much as a decent road bike, but it is unique.

I am a fan of the look of silver Campagnolo Veloce on a vintage steel frame.